Twelve String Tele Kit Build -- Looking for advice

[matmosphere]

I am embarking on the finishing and assembly of a 12 string telecast kit. Never done a kit before but I did build a Danelectro style guitar a few years back (that poor guitar is gonna need some help one day). Also have very little experience with 12 string electrics, but I have a 12 string acoustic that I played the hell out of. For maybe 5-6 years it was probably the only guitar I picked up. So a 12 string electric should be fun.

Looked over the kit the neck and body are good. Frets are surprisingly decent, and the neck is nice and straight. The tuners seem okay, I'm going to give them a shot and see how they are before investing in two sets of better tuners. The bridge looks.. okay, we'll see how it is. I read a lot of people say it's fine, but I'm not sold on it yet. Once it is assembled I decide what to do, if anything about it.

I have some sanding ahead of me, and some shellac flakes to mix up, but first there is other business to attend to.

The electronics that came with it are the cheapest of cheap. I have several other projects going on right now to so I don't feel like dropping serious money on pups right now, but I'm assuming the kit ones are not worth even wiring up. Leaning towards putting in some GFS pickups at the moment, they aren't the best, but they don't cost much and I'm sure they will be a world better.

I am hoping to learn from the wealth of experience on here. Anyone have suggestions for pot values, tone cap values? I know what I like for a six but a twelve is probably not gonna be the same.

Is that tele neck pickup decent on a twelve string or should I look at doing a one pickup esquire thing? The neck position is routed for a hum bucker but I'm generally a single coil guy. Whatever I use will be alnico, not ceramic, and definitely nothing hot.

Who knows, maybe it'll turn out to be my new daily player.

I'll post some pics as things start moving along.

 

[AlbertoMilanese]

Sounds great, keep us posted!

I like GFS pickups, they sound surprisingly good for the money. I'm usually a 500k guy, even for Teles, but I think on a 12, 250 may sound better just to tame the highs a little bit. However, if you're going for that Rick sound, put 500s or even 1000s on it!

 

[Gaz_]

Hello!

Finally, something I understand! Check out my profile pic, that's my 12 string kit I built.

The neck was decent, abit of light fret works & levelling, then alot of tru oil, it came out really nice and smooth. Be careful updating the tuners, I misjudged it, and so suffer with fairly serious neck dive.

The saddles on mine are a gotoh knock off, they do intonate, but all the saddles end up on an angle to get the strings level in a pair.

https://www.tdpri.com/threads/12-string-bridge-source.861119/

About halfway down that link, jhundt has explained an excellent way to fix the bridge, which I'll be doing soon...OR I'll stop being tight and but the below link to steel the saddles!

(link removed)

I've also ended up stringing it "ricky" style (octave sting below rather than above) this helps the little sliding saddle as the lower strings will always need to be a little longer than their octave counterpart.


I've only ever tuned to to D and then capo'd the 2nd. I did this on my original 12 string acoustic when it started to break, and have done it on pretty much every guitar since.

ELECTRONICS...

I do use the neck pickup quite alot while playing, I find for strumming it really gives a nice bit of mud. I've ended up with quite high output pickups, I love how mine sounds, but I believe standard output would be better.

I'd recommend using a 250k volume, and a 500k tone pot. That really gives a nice range to find it's place in the mix.

I also found this link to be really useful.
https://www.myrareguitars.com/tone-secrets-electric-12-string-guitar

Then there's compression. So much compression.

I hope that helps

 

[matmosphere]

!! Thanks Gaz, there is a lot of solid info here. Hadn't considered flat wound strings. I looked over the bridge thread. I wonder if the saddles from the Gotoh bridge would work on the bridgeplate that came with the guitar.

I'm excited about exploring comps, have one I like now but I'll probably build a few others and see what suits my taste with this guitar.

Interesting story, I was reading about the Janglebox compressor and discovered the the guys who make them were just around the corner from my house. Kept meaning to go knock on the door of their headquarters but never did.

 

[Gaz_]

The flat wounds are worth a try, I've got some on at the moment, they're kind of self compressing, due to the lack of ring. It works really well through your pedals and into an amp, but I hate practising with it at home (I rarely plug in if it's just me n the wife).

The strings will come off in a couple of weeks, I'll do the bridge mod detailed above, and then I'll probably try some ernie ball regulars.

Speaking of a janglebox, I did find a schematic for one, I just lack the soldering ability. You sound like a man with the skills...



As I understand it, it uses a more available chip.
Here's the link
http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2016/05/lm13700-janglebox.html

 

[jhundt]

I have done all of this!

I built a 12-string Tele from a real cheap Chinese kit, marketed in the UK by Gear4Music; because my budget was limited, I bought a 'second' - a kit that had been returned unassembled. It cost me 80 Euros - which I could afford at that time.

I had to do a lot of tweaking. There was a twist in the neck, and the bridge wasn't really aligned correctly. I had to do a full and extensive fret-file, crown, and finish. I had to cut a new pickguard - which I would have done anyway, because I wanted it black. In the spirit of cheap/no money, I did all the finishing using readily available water-based DIY products.

After assembly, I loved it! You have already read about my bridge mods. They really made a difference. If I built another, I would buy a Gotoh bridge (if I could afford it!)

RE: the quality of the tuners, pickups, and electronics - mine has, naturally, the cheapest stuff than China has to offer. But in spite of that, I find that the tuners work quite well. I was suspicious of the little pots, but I decided to mworry about them when they became a problem. So far they work fine and the Tone pot is the only one on any of my Telecaster guitars that works well.

About the pickups - they sound fine to me. I have not played the guitar outside of my own music room, or at a real stage volume. But I'm still happy so far.

RE: the Janglebox. Oh man, this thing is great! I built my own. And what a great thing it is! Here's a reason to NOT omit the neck pickup. The JangleBox is based on the sound of old Jim (Roger) McGuinn's Byrd's recordings. His sound was originally acheived with loads of studio compression. Later he found a way to do it live using an old treble-booster and a DOD compressor pedal. The JangleBox recreates the circuits of those two pedals. If you use the neck pickup with the treble-boost and full compression, the sound is absolutely perfect! It may seem counter-intuitive, but believe me - it works. You can hear the compressor working, but that's part of the great 60's twelve-string sound.

 

[bender66]

I think I pondered the same thing, & it might have been jhundt that convinced me to keep the neck pickup too. Of course that 12 string kit is still sitting in the box, so there's that.

 

[jhundt]

build that thing! you will love it.

I think I pondered the same thing, & it might have been jhundt that convinced me to keep the neck pickup too. Of course that 12 string kit is still sitting in the box, so there's that.

 

[Freeman Keller]

Mat, looking forward to watching your build. I consider myself an acoustic 12 string player - I own three, two of which I built - but I haven't felt a need for an electric (yet). Plus all the ones I've played seem to be a compromise - mainly because of the bridges that are available. I like wider fretboards on my acoustic 12's at both ends and it seems like most electrics are too narrow.

Be that as it may, a couple of other things to think about when building a twelve string is tuning and strings. With an acoustic 12 we tend to use lighter gauge strings and often down tune, that means that even tho we have twice as many string the total tension has gone up by 50 percent or less. With the strings that are available for electrics (D'Addario EXL150) the tension is almost exactly double that of an 6 string electric (from roughly 100 pounds to 200). That is significant and should be considered with neck design and other structural issues. It is worth while considering down tuning to get a bit more reasonable playability.

One of the reasons I'm aware of this at the current time is that I happen to be building a 6/12 string double neck and I'm very cognisant of neck width, tension and all the other parameters.

 

[DesmoDog]

I put together a cheap 12 string kit a few years back.

It was ok, except for a few things... like pretty much everything when it came down to it. I stopped fixing the "little" things when the costs started spiraling.

There's a thread about it here somwhere

Wow, I just searched for the thread and it was ten years ago now. That's depressing for reasons I won't get into.

Anyway, here's the thread.
https://www.tdpri.com/threads/ebay-12-string-tele-kit-build.229221/

It was an education building it so I won't say it was a waste of money, but I never pull it out of the closet to try to play it. A while back I showed it to a couple people and literally couldn't give it away.

Later on I got a Starcaster body and put a 12 string neck on it. Never did get the nut where I wanted it so it's been in the closet with the other one for a couple years now. Kinda thinking about making it into a 6 string again and buying a Gretsch 12 string...

I'm sure you'll learn a lot putting it together, have fun with it. But keep an eye on the pursestrings, cheap kits have a way of becoming not so cheap guitars.

 

[matmosphere]

Well, I'm diving right in. got two coats of shellac on the back and sides, will try to build up a couple more tonight. Tomorrow I'll hit the top and see where we are at.

Mat, looking forward to watching your build. I consider myself an acoustic 12 string player - I own three, two of which I built - but I haven't felt a need for an electric (yet). Plus all the ones I've played seem to be a compromise - mainly because of the bridges that are available. I like wider fretboards on my acoustic 12's at both ends and it seems like most electrics are too narrow.

Be that as it may, a couple of other things to think about when building a twelve string is tuning and strings. With an acoustic 12 we tend to use lighter gauge strings and often down tune, that means that even tho we have twice as many string the total tension has gone up by 50 percent or less. With the strings that are available for electrics (D'Addario EXL150) the tension is almost exactly double that of an 6 string electric (from roughly 100 pounds to 200). That is significant and should be considered with neck design and other structural issues. It is worth while considering down tuning to get a bit more reasonable playability.

One of the reasons I'm aware of this at the current time is that I happen to be building a 6/12 string double neck and I'm very cognisant of neck width, tension and all the other parameters.

Thanks for the guidance. I won't have a ton of control over the neck because it's a kit build, but I am planning on stinging it up and seeing where it is. It's funny, I generally play 11's on electric, though I used to keep 10's (I think) on the acoustic 12. I bought a set of 11's for this build but I'm already thinking that was not a great idea.

12 string acoustic are definitely the guitars that speak to me the most (and maybe bass), I tend to enjoy playing acoustic more than electric, but ironically haven't owned an acoustic 6 for a couple of years. I started building effects 5 or so years ago, more out of interest in a new hobby than interest in using a lot of effects and that has got me playing more electric.

The 12 string electric comes from a love of sixties rock and REM, should be fun.



Demodog, I here you about the purse strings, but fortunately given the state of my wallet and the number of children I'll be trying to help pay for college in 8 or 10 years, a spiral of expenses isn't an option here.

 

[Freeman Keller]

The thing to remember about string gauge is that standard for an acoustic six is either 12's (about 165 pounds) or 13's (180), For an acoustic 12 string 10's are pretty common which at concert pitch is around 250, but most of us tune down one semitone (230) or two (205). On an electric six string with 10's you are just a hair over 100 pounds and the D'Addario set (also tens) is 200 at concert. That does impart a whole different feel to an electric guitar. I haven't calculated your 11's but you might want to down tune for sure or get something lighter.

 

[matmosphere]

Quick update, got shellac on the back and sides and while it’s not perfect I’m happy considering it was my first time using shellac.

started putting coats on the top this evening. Will do more tomorrow and hopefully be assembling by the weekend.

The body is ok but there is one spot on the upper part where the bing doesn’t look right. I considered sending it back but It travelled a great distance to get to me and the neck is impressive enough I don’t want to risk getting a different one.

I’ll post so pictures soon.

 

[matmosphere]

This is how it looked when I unpacked it. the neck is straight as an arrow and the frets are nice and level. Not sure what I’ll do as far as putting a finish on the neck. I can tell it already has something on it so an email to the seller is in order.

Here’s how the back looked before I polished it a little bit. It’s a three piece body and on of the pieces is quite a bit darker, but such is life.

 

[matmosphere]

Oh and the body is 2 1/8” think. I think the routes are deeper than a standard tele is thick!

 

[naneek]

I like the lipstick tube pickups from gfs. they are pretty cheap. it would make sense to use those on a 12 string because they have a rail style magnet instead of individual pole-pieces. I think that would sound great especially if you are going for a jangly 60's electric 12 string sound.

 

[matmosphere]

Still pushing on with this. Finished the top, it’s looking pretty good. Started mounting all the hardware. Probably give the frets a once over tonight or tomorrow and try and wire it up soon.

put the tuners on the neck, and it’s made me realize that the body is probably so thick to offset the widget of the headstock.

I think I’m going to wire it up as is and decide about the electronics later. Thinking I want to wait and see how it holds tune and if the bridge works well. I’m thinking I should reserve any extra dollars for that right now. It wouldn’t sound good with the best pickups in the world if it’s not in tune.

 

[matmosphere]

Here are a few pics of how the finish on the top looks. I think the back looks a little better, but even waiting for a couple hours between coats I started to get some blocking, so I took it back a little and got to a spot where it’s stable.

Decided to assemble it see how everything is. Maybe once it warms up outside I’ll revisit the finish.. maybe.

Think I’m gonna do the 250k volume and 500k tone idea from above. What cap values are you guys happiest with?

 

[Captain Nutslot]

 

[matmosphere]

Got strings on it tonight. Everything is wired up but I haven’t plugged it in yet.

The neck is very wide and thick. Didn’t notice until the strings were on. Probably overkill but I think I’ll adjust to it.

Think the bridge will be okay to work with. The string height between the pairs is quite surprising.

The nut is going to take some work though and I’m not sure I’m completely confident that I should tackle it myself. I shaved a decent amount off the bottom already but the strings are still very high. Just not sure when to stop shaving the bottom and work on the groves themself.