Guild tremelo tuning stability

[swampyankee]

I just picked up a used (import) Guild Starfire V with the "Guildsby" tremelo. I've never owned a guitar with a Bigsby-type tremelo so I thought I'd try one. The day after I brought it home I brought it to band practice. It plays well enough, but it seemed like between every song I had to re-tune whether I used the tremelo or not.
The P.O told me he had mounted a roller bridge but took it off because it was more of a PITA than it was worth (he may have decided to sell it separately to recoup his investment). I've read a bit about making sure the nut has adequate clearance, and I've always used a bit of graphite in the nut of my guitars, but is there anything else I can do to improve tuning stability? Or is this Guild tremelo just unstable by nature? I am ok with replacing it with a harp tail piece.

 

[Bob M]

I have a few guitars with Bigsbys, and the key to tuning stability is indeed at the nut. Make sure there is no binding at the nut and use a lubricant. I'm using nut sauce on guitars with tremolos and so far it has worked well.

 

[schmee]

It sounds like it's not the Tremelo that is your problem, as you are not using it. As noted, maybe the nut is binding. The Guild Bigsby should be fine. One other possibility is someone has installed a very soft spring in the Bigsby. If using the tremelo and it goes out of tune is an issue, then the roller bridge or other style often used by the Gretsch crowd helps. The Gretsch guys mostly don't like the roller bridges. There are other bridges that rock a bit.

I will say this though. I have had guitars that one string in particular will not stay in tune. Guitars without any tremelo. It's like voodoo. I have tweaked the nut, replaced the tuners etc etc. The same string will be flat after the guitar sits a while or is played. Go figure. I believe in physics... being an engineer, but I have had two guitars like this and nothing fixed it!

 

[brookdalebill]

I had one, and had the same problem.
The problem, IMO is the downbearing bar on the Bigsby creates a “too steep” angle.
@BorderRadio did a mod to his that alleviated it.
Those guitars, with the smaller humbuckers sound great, BTW!

 

[hemingway]

After a bit of tremming, just give it a slight nudge in the other direction (i.e., up) and it should resettle pretty well.

 

[StoogeSurfer]

It could be at the nut, or at the bridge. Sometimes on the Bigsby, the string may not be following a straight line from the roller peg to the bridge, so check that, and lubricate the bridge points too.

 

[Blrfl]

My SF-V had a lot of stability problems with the wound strings that I traced to a grabby nut. Lubrication helped some, but I may sneak in there with a file and give it a bit more lateral room.

 

[jhundt]

you say you "just picked up" this guitar. Are you using the strings that were on the guitar, or have you replaced them? Because the original strings might be of questionable quality, or installed poorly, or simply not stretched enough.

 

[BorderRadio]

I love my Guild SF-V, and I almost put it on the chopping block before I learned what works for me regarding the Newark St. pickups. I won't part with mine now.

The import Guildsby, essentially a Bigsby B70, is not made very well. Mine wasn't anyways. The needle bearing was dry, rough movement, and there was too much break angle behind the bridge. There is plenty of neck pitch on mine, I was able to remove the tension bar altogether, which is how I tested to see if I could install a B6-type MIA Guildsby. It has about 7 to 8 degrees of break, perfect IME. Removing the bar helped with tuning stability and improved sensitivity. I also installed a ABM roller bridge. The cool thing about the MIA Guildsby is the end plate matched perfectly, and it covered the holes in the top. The MIA Guildsby is rare as hens teeth though, good luck finding one. A regular Bigsby B6 should fit though, but you'll need to transfer over the hinge plate.

The bone nut needs dressing and lube, and remember to lock the string on the posts with only 2/3 winds, typical vibrato setup stuff I learned in the Gretsch crowd.

 

[swampyankee]

I was tinkering with it today and noticed that as i tuned the wound strings, they would creak as they dragged thru the nut. I didnt measure string gage but i will change to my usual .010 - .046, intonate, and open up the nut if necessary. Oh, and lube the nut as well..

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[swampyankee]

A little update -
I changed strings and noticed that the high E and B string had a buzzy sitar effect. I was adjusting ppickup heights and noticed that the the string groove in the bridge looked excessive for the high strings. So I loosened the bass E and pulled it aside and sure enough, the PO had installed the bridge backwards !@@#!
Probably done when he took off the roller bridge he had on there.

I swapped it around and intonated, and the guitar sounds much better. Still have the tuning problem, but now that I have "my" gage of strings on there I can open up the nut a bit to clear, and then lube it.

 

[stefanhotrod]

Everything what BorderRadio said. And the bridge is also a usual suspect. You don‘t want the cheap TOM-bridge and you never ever want a roller bridge- your Guild needs a Barbridge:

Look for Truarc!

 

[Blrfl]

... and sure enough, the PO had installed the bridge backwards !@@#!

That'll do it. Stock is with the adjustment screws facing the neck.

If you want a baseline, the strings that ship with the guitar are D'Addario EXL 115 Nickel Wounds, .011 - .049.

 

[swampyankee]

I use .010 - .046 myself, which should have better clearance.

 

[AnEscapeKey]

Hey man! I just joined this forum just to follow up on your issue because I bought a Guild Starfire V (the Newark St reissue) just last month and I have the same tuning issues as you.

I use it with 10-52 strings. The nut was already adjusted for that gauge. I also fully lubricated the nut and saddles with Nut Sauce.

I changed strings again 2 days ago and passed the strings over the bigsby roller bar. So it just entirely bypassed it. The break angle is now just little short of 8 degrees and it has made quite a difference. I’ll be able to confirm with more confidence in a week or or if it has really solved the problem entirely, but it has definitely helped.

 

[swampyankee]

Interesting. I read someone here that had removed the roller bar entirely, but it sounds like just running the strings over the top of it is an easier thing to try.

I haven't had time to open up the nut yet. After changing strings the tuning seems to be stabilizing as long as I don't touch the vibrato...

 

[iamjethro]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but I just bought a
Starfire III and find this stuff meaningful to me now.

I tried to register at a Guild Forum, but it will not allow me and I get no emails back from them. Anyone possibly a member there with any help for me?

 

[AnEscapeKey]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but I just bought a
Starfire III and find this stuff meaningful to me now.

I tried to register at a Guild Forum, but it will not allow me and I get no emails back from them. Anyone possibly a member there with any help for me?

On my end, the Guild forum seems inactive or something. It gives me a 404 page not found error when trying to access it.

 

[AnEscapeKey]

Interesting. I read someone here that had removed the roller bar entirely, but it sounds like just running the strings over the top of it is an easier thing to try.

I haven't had time to open up the nut yet. After changing strings the tuning seems to be stabilizing as long as I don't touch the vibrato...

Update:

I stretched my strings again and played a little more tonight, and my tuning seemed very stable. We’ll see tomorrow night after a full-on, sweaty band practice...!

It just looks weird a little, but if it plays fine and stays in tune, it’s all good. I wish Guild sold more guildsby parts and models.

 

[AnEscapeKey]

On my end, the Guild forum seems inactive or something. It gives me a 404 page not found error when trying to access it.

Nevermind, it’s back now. Yay.