Advice for overspraying a Gibson style headstock inlay

[bierce85]

Hello, I'm looking for some advice regarding which type of paint would be best to overspray a headstock inlay. It's not actually "inlaid" into the headstock, its simply glued down to the face, which is currently just bare wood. The goal is to build up a thick black finish around it then sand it flush and clearcoat with nitrocellulose for a traditional looking inlaid Gibson headstock. The inlay is 0.5 mm in thickness.

I'm avoiding nitrocellulose for this task as it will eventually shrink and the inlay will wind up proud of the surrounding finish. I'm considering a black acrylic lacquer, but I'm just not sure how thick I would be able to build it up. Just wondering how you finishing experts would approach this...

The guitar is a 1980s Greco LP copy which originally had the inlay buried in the finish, so I know its possible. I believe the original finish was polyurethane.

 

[Buckocaster51]

Polyurethane? There you go.

If it worked once...

How about building a tape dam around the head stock and flooding it with medium viscosity CA? Or some clear epoxy?

Or learn to do the inlay work. It is fun. Really

 

[Silverface]

The goal is to build up a thick black finish around it then sand it flush and clearcoat with nitrocellulose for a traditional looking inlaid Gibson headstock. The inlay is 0.5 mm in thickness.

The usual overlay is a piece of thin, black fiberboard. Building a coating up to .5mm is virtually impossible to do smoothly - that 19 mils of coating, the equivalent of around 10-12 coats of polyurethane - even more of lacquer.

Trying to do it with CA glue or epoxy will probably be a disaster. I would buy the normal fiber overlay, do a cutout for the logo, and fill any small gaps with black CA. In other words, do i right - inlay it.

 

[bierce85]

@Silverface Thanks for the input. I would like to point out that after sanding flush the inlay will only be about 0.2 mm in thickness.. so less than half of 0.5.

 

[Silverface]

I would like to point out that after sanding flush the inlay will only be about 0.2 mm in thickness.. so less than half of 0.5.

Read up on inlay procedures. There are several "backfill" methods used to bring up the level behind the inlay prior to placement, or gluing the inlay to backer and cutting the perimeter at a slight inward angle (so the backing does not show) prior to placement.

That's just normal stuff when dealing with inlay.

 

[bierce85]

@Silverface I just came across dremel tables/router attachments. Had no idea this existed! Now that its within my reach I will definitely just route out the headstock the proper way. I thought I would need access to a real woodworking shop to do something like that.

 

[Freeman Keller]

Bierce, normal pearl inlay material is about 0.050 inch (1.2 mm) thick. When I inlay it I like to let the inlay stand very slightly proud of the surround. I use a dremel router base to make the channel, set the pearl in black expoxy, finish right over the top of the pearl, then scrape it back with a box cutter blade, then clear coat over the top. I used lacquer for all my finishes.

I'm concerned by the thinness of your material and wondering if it is hard enough for the scraping and sanding. Pearl itself is very hard but if yours is some sort of plastic or synthetic (MOT) it might not stand up.

 

[Silverface]

I just came across dremel tables/router attachments.

I like them for pickup routs and other trimmed-out, less precise work - but they're plastic and IMO not really stable enough for inlay work. It's also quite large at the base, which can be a pain.

Look at the Stewmac unit in the post above - like most of their tools/jigs it's expensive, but has 10x the stability/accuracy of the Dremel router base. The Dremel has all kinds of neat measuring and guide devices - but they're kind of like fancy frosting on a Twinkie.

 

[bierce85]

Bierce, normal pearl inlay material is about 0.050 inch (1.2 mm) thick. When I inlay it I like to let the inlay stand very slightly proud of the surround. I use a dremel router base to make the channel, set the pearl in black expoxy, finish right over the top of the pearl, then scrape it back with a box cutter blade, then clear coat over the top. I used lacquer for all my finishes.

I'm concerned by the thinness of your material and wondering if it is hard enough for the scraping and sanding. Pearl itself is very hard but if yours is some sort of plastic or synthetic (MOT) it might not stand up.

View attachment 611027

View attachment 611028

I think the idea with the thin inlay is to build up the basecoat around it and seal it in, never actually sanding or scraping the inlay itself. I think Greco might have used some sort of black epoxy at the factory which they were able to build up flush with the inlay then clear coat. In any case, I think it's an inferior way of doing it.

 

[bierce85]

I like them for pickup routs and other trimmed-out, less precise work - but they're plastic and IMO not really stable enough for inlay work. It's also quite large at the base, which can be a pain.

Look at the Stewmac unit in the post above - like most of their tools/jigs it's expensive, but has 10x the stability/accuracy of the Dremel router base. The Dremel has all kinds of neat measuring and guide devices - but they're kind of like fancy frosting on a Twinkie.

I was looking at the stewmac tool, which looks totally necessary for the more detailed kind of stuff @Freeman Keller is doing. I think I can get by with the little round attachment that comes with the dremel for routing out a Gibson style peghead. Might pick up the stewmac tool in the future if I wind up doing more of this.

Question for both of you guys: I've replaced a few Gibson inlays on headstocks which were already routed and initially used superglue to secure the back of the inlay within the route, followed by the black epoxy. I'm thinking it would be smarter to just use the black epoxy so theres no chance of the clear glue building up and creating a clear "hole" in the black background, which I've had to deal with in the past. I guess my concern is that just filling around the sides of the inlay with the black doesnt do anything to adhere the back of the inlay to the face of the peghead.

Do you guys do anything to initially secure the inlay in the route or just fill it in with the black epoxy and thats good enough?

 

[Freeman Keller]

Question for both of you guys: I've replaced a few Gibson inlays on headstocks which were already routed and initially used superglue to secure the back of the inlay within the route, followed by the black epoxy. I'm thinking it would be smarter to just use the black epoxy so theres no chance of the clear glue building up and creating a clear "hole" in the black background, which I've had to deal with in the past. I guess my concern is that just filling around the sides of the inlay with the black doesnt do anything to adhere the back of the inlay to the face of the peghead.

Do you guys do anything to initially secure the inlay in the route or just fill it in with the black epoxy and thats good enough?

All of my guitars get a MOP inlay on the headstock (my initials) and some sort of MOP markers on the fretboard. I don't do fancy inlay but I think its an important touch on a hand made guitar. On a few of my fender style guitars I have done inlay with contrasting wood - I just don't feel that bling look correct on a telecaster.

I buy my pearl 0.050 thick and usually precut in the shape I want. I can cut the pearl itself with a little jewelers saw but I find it tedious. Lots of production pearl is cut with cnc's now (and lots of manufactures use cnc's to route the channels for the pearl. I'm also aware of import restrictions on pearl products - everything I use is a byproduct of the shellfish industries and comes with CITES traceability.

I route the channels with the StewMac dremel base as shown in the picture above. It is not a plunge base, I have to do the "plunge" in the middle of the route and work out to the sides. I use a couple of different size bits with I also buy from StewMac because it cheaper (I've heard of people asking their dentists for old burrs that are too dull for teeth but still OK for wood).

I hold the pearl against whatever I'm installing it in, trace around with a fine pencil and try to scribe around it with an Xacto knife. Set the depth of the bit to the thickness of the pearl. When I'm routing a radiused fretboard I put masking tape on the sides to make it flat. Put on my best reading glasses and put a light right down next to the work and have at it.

My channels are never perfect, there are always some little gaps around the edges, so I employ a clever little cheating trick. When I'm ready to actually do the inlay I sand a piece of whatever kind of wood I'm working with and collect some of the dust. I mix that with slow set epoxy and grout the pearl into the wood. The epoxy fills all the voids and is force up along side the pearl. I lay a piece of waxed paper on top and clamp a flat piece of wood over that to try to keep it level. When the epoxy cures I scrape the epoxy off and make everything flat. Pearl sands OK, but scraping will bring back the luster

Here are Gold MOP blocks going into a rosewood fretboard, that is some powdered rose on the sandpaper

Same guitar getting ready for Gold initials in the head, the headstock veneer is Spanish cedar so that becomes the grout

Here it is in place. Notice that the grout turns out darker than the surrounding wood even tho it is made out of that same stuff. That can be a good thing - it puts a little dark line around the pearl, or it can be a bad thing - it shows off your flaws.

There is that guitar with a couple of coats of lacquer

When I am inlaying in ebony I usually use ebony dust as above but if you are going to paint it black I might use black epoxy, which is what I suggested to you. I keep some on my bench for drop filling damaged black guitars, its easy to mix a bit and set the pearl. I also thought it would work better for your thin material.

I also have no experience with material that thin so take everything above with a grain of salt. I don't know if its actually inlaid or glued on the surface and the finish built up. I would do a whole lot of practicing before I ever took a bit to my guitar.

Last comment, I have two of those plastic dremel router bases. They only work on dremels that have the big screw on adapter nut on the end. If you would like one PM me a snail mail address and I'll drop it in the mail.

 

[Silverface]

Do you guys do anything to initially secure the inlay in the route or just fill it in with the black epoxy and thats good enough?

Black epoxy - sometimes with ebony dust mixed in to correct the color a bit.

Why are you concerned about epoxy to hold the inlay in place? It's a FAR better adhesive than superglue! Superglue has excellent pull resistance but terrible shear (side-to-side) resistance, while epoxy is an excellent adhesive in ALL directions.

I only use superglue to replace inlay that's fallen out - where no fill is required - or for very small areas of "drop fill", usually with ebony or rosewood dust mixed in (this is on fretboard work - I do use it sparingly in other finish repairs).

 

[bierce85]

All of my guitars get a MOP inlay on the headstock (my initials) and some sort of MOP markers on the fretboard. I don't do fancy inlay but I think its an important touch on a hand made guitar. On a few of my fender style guitars I have done inlay with contrasting wood - I just don't feel that bling look correct on a telecaster.

I buy my pearl 0.050 thick and usually precut in the shape I want. I can cut the pearl itself with a little jewelers saw but I find it tedious. Lots of production pearl is cut with cnc's now (and lots of manufactures use cnc's to route the channels for the pearl. I'm also aware of import restrictions on pearl products - everything I use is a byproduct of the shellfish industries and comes with CITES traceability.

I route the channels with the StewMac dremel base as shown in the picture above. It is not a plunge base, I have to do the "plunge" in the middle of the route and work out to the sides. I use a couple of different size bits with I also buy from StewMac because it cheaper (I've heard of people asking their dentists for old burrs that are too dull for teeth but still OK for wood).

I hold the pearl against whatever I'm installing it in, trace around with a fine pencil and try to scribe around it with an Xacto knife. Set the depth of the bit to the thickness of the pearl. When I'm routing a radiused fretboard I put masking tape on the sides to make it flat. Put on my best reading glasses and put a light right down next to the work and have at it.

My channels are never perfect, there are always some little gaps around the edges, so I employ a clever little cheating trick. When I'm ready to actually do the inlay I sand a piece of whatever kind of wood I'm working with and collect some of the dust. I mix that with slow set epoxy and grout the pearl into the wood. The epoxy fills all the voids and is force up along side the pearl. I lay a piece of waxed paper on top and clamp a flat piece of wood over that to try to keep it level. When the epoxy cures I scrape the epoxy off and make everything flat. Pearl sands OK, but scraping will bring back the luster

Here are Gold MOP blocks going into a rosewood fretboard, that is some powdered rose on the sandpaper

View attachment 612256

Same guitar getting ready for Gold initials in the head, the headstock veneer is Spanish cedar so that becomes the grout

View attachment 612257

Here it is in place. Notice that the grout turns out darker than the surrounding wood even tho it is made out of that same stuff. That can be a good thing - it puts a little dark line around the pearl, or it can be a bad thing - it shows off your flaws.

View attachment 612258

There is that guitar with a couple of coats of lacquer

View attachment 612259

When I am inlaying in ebony I usually use ebony dust as above but if you are going to paint it black I might use black epoxy, which is what I suggested to you. I keep some on my bench for drop filling damaged black guitars, its easy to mix a bit and set the pearl. I also thought it would work better for your thin material.

I also have no experience with material that thin so take everything above with a grain of salt. I don't know if its actually inlaid or glued on the surface and the finish built up. I would do a whole lot of practicing before I ever took a bit to my guitar.

Last comment, I have two of those plastic dremel router bases. They only work on dremels that have the big screw on adapter nut on the end. If you would like one PM me a snail mail address and I'll drop it in the mail.

@Freeman Keller thanks so much for all that info.

I have a little circular router base/table and some really small drill bits that came with my dremel which I think will work well. I'm waiting on a full thickness 1.2 mm inlay to arrive so I can make a trace of it on the headstock to prepare for routing. Thanks so much for all the info and the offer for the table/base!

 

[Buckocaster51]

Before I started using down- spiral carbide cutters for inlay work, I used little bits (burrs?) that I got from my dentist

You definitely want something that cuts a SQUARE bottom.

Do not use those little round Dremel cutters

 

[bierce85]

Why are you concerned about epoxy to hold the inlay in place? It's a FAR better adhesive than superglue! Superglue has excellent pull resistance but terrible shear (side-to-side) resistance, while epoxy is an excellent adhesive in ALL directions.

Great stuff to know. What I was asking was why not initially secure the inlay to the face of the headstock with superglue (or epoxy) then flood the inlay route with epoxy? I'm just wondering what everyone's method is. Do you first fill the route with epoxy and then insert the inlay or is simply placing the inlay into the bare wood route then flooding it with epoxy sufficient?

 

[bierce85]

Before I started using down- spiral carbide cutters for inlay work, I used little bits (burrs?) that I got from my dentist

You definitely want something that cuts a SQUARE bottom.

Do not use those little round Dremel cutters

I have some gold (what appears to be) jewelry drill bits that are flat bottomed and range from small to extremely small in diameter. Not sure where they came from but they were in the case with my dremel which I havent used in years, along with the table attachment. I'd call that a win!

 

[rogb]

@Silverface I just came across dremel tables/router attachments. Had no idea this existed! Now that its within my reach I will definitely just route out the headstock the proper way. I thought I would need access to a real woodworking shop to do something like that.

On my LP build I had an inlay made up, positioned it and traced round it.
I used the simple Dremel "funnel" router attachment which comes with a flat end bit.
I cut a well for the inlay to sit in, glued it down then filled with black epoxy putty. When dry, sanded flat.
After spraying with black, I scraped the inlay then nitro gloss with an amber coat .
I think Gibson did it much the same.

 

[bierce85]

On my LP build I had an inlay made up, positioned it and traced round it.
I used the simple Dremel "funnel" router attachment which comes with a flat end bit.
I cut a well for the inlay to sit in, glued it down then filled with black epoxy putty. When dry, sanded flat.
After spraying with black, I scraped the inlay then nitro gloss with an amber coat .
I think Gibson did it much the same.

That's pretty much exactly how I'm doing it. I believe I'm using the same "funnel" attachment. I've refinished a few Gibson headstocks before with new inlays but never actually did the routing. I'm leaning towards not gluing the inlay down first and just letting the black epoxy do all the adhering, because in the past I've had an issue with the excess ca glue coming up the side of the inlay and creating a clear "bubble" in the black background. It's only noticeable in very strong direct lighting but still a flaw.

I've never had any luck scraping the black off. The best way I've found (for me) is to put a piece of clear packing tape across the inlay and to use some kind of straight edge and a razor blade to make a nice clean cut around it to create a frisket. The clear tape is great because you can see through it while cutting around the inlay and once sprayed it doesnt allow the black lacquer to bleed under it at all. You're left with a perfect cut out of the inlay.

 

[Silverface]

Do you first fill the route with epoxy and then insert the inlay or is simply placing the inlay into the bare wood route then flooding it with epoxy sufficient?

I fill part way with epoxy, press the inlay in place and use a stiff plastic scraper to remove any excess. With experience you learn how much to use so there 1) is very little excess to remove, and 2) how to scrape it without removing any and leaving holes to fill.

As soon as the epoxy has set and before it has fully hardened I solvent wipe the area to clean residue off the inlay. Usually no sanding or other work is required at all.