Tele build, bridge placement

[Fishman812]

Hello all,
I am in the middle of my first build. I have been woodworking for about 35 years and playing guitar even longer. This seems like the perfect marriage and I don't know why it took so long. Anyway, I am working from what I have found so far to be a quality template. I am getting ready to rout out the neck and pickup pockets but I find that the template places the bridge saddles when adjusted to the mid point to be about 3/16 long. Using a 25.5" scale length. From the center of the nut to the 12th fret is 12.75" but from the 12th fret to the intonation point where the saddle is adjusted to the middle is 12.9375. My question is should I adjust now or should I just follow the template. What I would do is alter the template to cut the neck pocket 3/16" closer to the bridge. Any comments or advice would be welcome. Thank you

 

[mozzman]

Bring a tape measure to a local guitar store,ask nicely. I just finished a build but the holes and pockets were pre drilled, i can measure if you need.

 

[Fishman812]

Not sure what you mean. I am measuring with Starrett 18' rule. The template is pre drilled but I started from rough sawn 8/4 stock not from a pre drilled body. I can adjust now but I don't think that I need to validate the integrity of my measuring tools or my measuring.

 

[mozzman]

Measure one at a guitar store is what I meant.

 

[Tallthinman]

If it is a quality template, go with that. The extra length from the twelfth fret to the saddle is what allows the intonation to be set accurately - turns out the end of the strings immediately next to the nut and saddle don't actually vibrate much (more so for the fatter strings - hence the increased length for the low e) so the saddle is moved back (away from the nut) so the effective vibrating string length is 25.5 inches even though the actual string length is longer.
as mozzman said, you can take measurements on an existing guitar and you will find that the actual string length is always larger than the nominal scale length.

 

[Fishman812]

tele bridge

Thanks to both of you for the advice. Everything so far has been quality about the template, that is why I was looking for advice on what I was seeing before I decided to modify the template. Thanks

 

[jaybones]

...from the 12th fret to the intonation point where the saddle is adjusted to the middle is 12.9375...

Do you mean where the saddle intonation screw is located? A better place to measure would be where the saddle would actually be on the bridge.

2 tenths of an inch from the back of the tele bridge plate is probably what you need for intonation adjustment.

As far as moving the neck pocket closer to the bridge, that sounds like moving the mountain to Mohammed. In other words, a bad idea, when Mohammed (the saddles) can be moved to the mountain (proper scale length and intonation). I wouldn't do it.

 

[Fishman812]

Thanks Jaybones. After I wrote about moving the neck pocket it sounded like a bad idea to me also. I think that it would affect the playability.

I am measuring the saddle at the intonation point, where the string meets the saddle. Moving the bridge 0.020 forward sounds like a good idea. Mozzman and Tallthinman recommend checking existing Telecasters intonation point measurements. At this point, I think that I will follow that advice until I can get a measurement from the 12th fret to the string location on the saddle.

Would appreciate if anyone can provide this for me.

I want to say thanks to all of you. I am not big on this kind of thing and this is the only forum that I have ever joined. So far it has been great.

 

[dsutton24]

Whoa... don't start routing if you don't have confidence in your template.

Route your neck pocket. Install the neck temporarily in the neck pocket. Set your saddles to the midpoint of their travel. Measure from the edge of the nut closest to the first fret, not the middle of the nut, to the middle of the 12th fret, it should be 12 3/4 inches, This is important. Now set the bridge on the body, center it up, and move it back and forth on the centerline until it measures 12 3/4 inches from the middle of the 12th fret to the point where the high e string takes off from the saddle, not the middle of the saddle. This is where your bridge belongs. If it matches what your template says, mark your template so you know in the future that it is a good template.

 

[LutherBurger]

Thanks Jaybones. After I wrote about moving the neck pocket it sounded like a bad idea to me also. I think that it would affect the playability.

I am measuring the saddle at the intonation point, where the string meets the saddle. Moving the bridge 0.020 forward sounds like a good idea. Mozzman and Tallthinman recommend checking existing Telecasters intonation point measurements. At this point, I think that I will follow that advice until I can get a measurement from the 12th fret to the string location on the saddle.

Would appreciate if anyone can provide this for me.

I want to say thanks to all of you. I am not big on this kind of thing and this is the only forum that I have ever joined. So far it has been great.

I just measured my MIM with a tape measure. From the 12th fret to the high E intonation point is 12-3/4". However, that's always going to be the case with a properly intonated 25.5" guitar, isn't it?

I then measured the distance from the 12th fret to the string-through holes (which aren't variable like saddle locations): 13-7/16". If you are planning to mount a string-through vintage 3-saddle or MIM six-saddle bridge and this measurement matches your template, you should be good to go.

If anyone else can corroborate my measurement with his/her own, please do.

 

[telemnemonics]

I just measured my MIM with a tape measure. From the 12th fret to the high E intonation point is 12-3/4". However, that's always going to be the case with a properly intonated 25.5" guitar, isn't it?

I then measured the distance from the 12th fret to the string-through holes (which aren't variable like saddle locations): 13-7/16". If you are planning to mount a string-through vintage 3-saddle or MIM six-saddle bridge and this measurement matches your template, you should be good to go.

If anyone else can corroborate my measurement with his/her own, please do.

I'm measuring 13 3/8" from 12th fret to string through holes on several Teles, one actually measures closer to 13 5/16".
This discrepancy can easily happen depending on how close the neck heel goes back in the pocket.
Possibly one tape can vary 1/16" from another, and of course hooking the tape end, pushing the tape end against and centering the tape end are all a bit variable at best.

The OP does NOT want to locate the bridge based on a measurement from 12th fret to saddle, since the saddle location is not fixed.

 

[Fishman812]

You are too cool dsutton24. Whoa! This is why I joined. I said to myself, self, you can't start routing pockets until you are sure. Thanks for the reinforcement. Just so I am clear, measurements are from the first fret side of the nut to the middle of the 12th fret and from the middle of the 12th fret to the intonation point of the high E string when the saddle is adjusted to the middle of its travel range. Is this right? I have provided the link to the bridge that I will be using.

(link removed)

 

[dsutton24]

The OP does NOT want to locate the bridge based on a measurement from 12th fret to saddle, since the saddle location is not fixed.

This is the worst advice on bridge placement I've ever read. If the OP wants his guitar to intonate, he needs to locate it in a position where the saddles will be the correct distance from the nut, and with the correct relationship to fret placement. The string through holes are not a good reference point. The distance from the nut to the saddles is crucial. That's WHY the saddles are movable.

 

[telemnemonics]

You are too cool dsutton24. Whoa! This is why I joined. I said to myself, self, you can't start routing pockets until you are sure. Thanks for the reinforcement. Just so I am clear, measurements are from the first fret side of the nut to the middle of the 12th fret and from the middle of the 12th fret to the intonation point of the high E string when the saddle is adjusted to the middle of its travel range. Is this right? I have provided the link to the bridge that I will be using.

(link removed)

No no no!

Sorry Dsutton...

There is no fixed "middle" of the saddles travel range!
The intonation adjusting screws on a Tele are way too long for ease of mounting with the compressed springs, and correct intonation is well back from what might appear to be the "middle", with the saddle height screws almost sitting on the screws that mount the bridge to the body.

 

[dsutton24]

Just so I am clear, measurements are from the first fret side of the nut to the middle of the 12th fret and from the middle of the 12th fret to the intonation point of the high E string when the saddle is adjusted to the middle of its travel range. Is this right?

Yes, this is right. That's a good bridge, and you'll have no trouble with it.

 

[dsutton24]

No no no!

Sorry Dsutton...

There is no fixed "middle" of the saddles travel range!
The intonation adjusting screws on a Tele are way too long for ease of mounting with the compressed springs, and correct intonation is well back from what might appear to be the "middle", with the saddle height screws almost sitting on the screws that mount the bridge to the body.

You are absolutely wrong about this. I'll bow out now and leave it to you to sort this out when it goes wrong.

 

[Fishman812]

Thanks to all of you for your help on this. I went out and remeasured and I think that I am good to go. The template looks like it is right on. Dsutton your advice on measurement points put me spot on. As for the string through holes, I did not take any measurements there but your point, telemnmonics, about the length of the adjusting screws is well taken.
Thanks again to all of you

 

[telemnemonics]

Exactly where the OP adjusts the saddles on the bridge before measuring to locate the bridge, will determine the location of the bridge.
But eyeballing the "middle" when correct intonation is near the back of travel, will be inaccurate at best, and place the bridge too far back at worst.
A Tele bridge has a fixed location, not an eyeballed location.
Eyeballing the middle of the saddle adjustment range is eyeballing the bridge location.
Once the bridge is mounted in the standard spec'd location, the saddles can be adjusted.

 

[Fishman812]

telemnemonics, this is my first build. What I was trying to do was validate the integrity of my template. The measurements that I obtained first led me to believe that the template was off. After remeasuring from more accurate locations, I was able to determine that the template is accurate. That said, I will be placing the bridge where the template specified. dsutton24 was very helpful to me in that I was in the right church but the wrong pew. My original measure locations were off and this cleared the matter for me. Thanks for you input on this. I will let all know how the build is going and I am sure I will be asking for additional help during this process.

 

[telemnemonics]

telemnemonics, this is my first build. What I was trying to do was validate the integrity of my template. The measurements that I obtained first led me to believe that the template was off. After remeasuring from more accurate locations, I was able to determine that the template is accurate. That said, I will be placing the bridge where the template specified. dsutton24 was very helpful to me in that I was in the right church but the wrong pew. My original measure locations were off and this cleared the matter for me. Thanks for you input on this. I will let all know how the build is going and I am sure I will be asking for additional help during this process.

Sounds good, and like electric guitar music, the TDPRI can get a bit loud at times!
Mostly we just don't want to steer people wrong, and sometimes three explanations triangulate better than one.