Emil Andersson
Tele-Meister
Hi!
I'm gonna build a tele partscaster and want to put vintage locking tuners on it. Wich one are most stable?
I'm gonna build a tele partscaster and want to put vintage locking tuners on it. Wich one are most stable?
Vintage locking tuners?
- Thread starter Emil Andersson
- Start date
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Rob DiStefano
Doctor of Teleocity
if you mean vintage style top lockers, they're all "stable" and a pita to use, imho. there is no need for locking tuners on a non-trem guitar.
standard vintage style tuners are still the better option. use two string trees for easier winding on of the strings - cut each string 3 tuner lengths away from the tuner to be used and yer good to go.
if you want to use 1 b/e string tree, the "formula" for the string cuts is different and the d/g strings need to be cut lots longer in order to get a good rear angle off the nut. this can make changing strings at a gig a pita, so instead use staggered vintage tuners.
the easiest/fastest locking tuners are rear lockers - love the new hip shots, but good bets are also planet waves and schallers (if ya can find them) ... but those uber lightweight and high ratio staggered hip shots are the cat's meow for locking tuners imho.
standard vintage style tuners are still the better option. use two string trees for easier winding on of the strings - cut each string 3 tuner lengths away from the tuner to be used and yer good to go.
if you want to use 1 b/e string tree, the "formula" for the string cuts is different and the d/g strings need to be cut lots longer in order to get a good rear angle off the nut. this can make changing strings at a gig a pita, so instead use staggered vintage tuners.
the easiest/fastest locking tuners are rear lockers - love the new hip shots, but good bets are also planet waves and schallers (if ya can find them) ... but those uber lightweight and high ratio staggered hip shots are the cat's meow for locking tuners imho.
Emil Andersson
Tele-Meister
I want locking tuners that look just like the old style tele tuners 
I have locking tuners on my deluxe strat and they are great. Had vintage style tuners on my Baja and the strings would not stop slipping and going out of tune. Both e and b string.
I have locking tuners on my deluxe strat and they are great. Had vintage style tuners on my Baja and the strings would not stop slipping and going out of tune. Both e and b string.
Rob DiStefano
Doctor of Teleocity
that it's happening to a pair of tuners, and thin strings, it's far more that likely you didn't put enuf string on the tuner. i've had *hundreds* of teles and strats since the mid 50's and never a string slip.
BartS
Friend of Leo's
Probably a bad cut nut. Tuners dont really slp so much as strings bind at the nut. If you have to have them I think gotoh makes vintage style locking tuners.
Emil, there's some tricks where you apply one or more 90 bends to the cut ends of the strings BEFORE ever loading them and it means you are not SOL even if you cut the ends a little short of the lengths Rob uses. Do that, and other than that all I can say is keep reading Rob's post here because he really knows precisely what he's talking about on this.
Let's give you an escape route, if you must. Install some Gotoh splits (Allparts # TK 0880) and if by some misadventure you cannot get accustomed to them, then the locking version of this Gotoh vintage tuner could be substituted within less than 5 minutes and minimal tools or effort. I use the specifications of these Gotoh machines as my reference point - I try to avoid getting bogged down fooling with somewhat alike (but slightly different specs) on the products from WD, Wilkinson or Ping.
Let's give you an escape route, if you must. Install some Gotoh splits (Allparts # TK 0880) and if by some misadventure you cannot get accustomed to them, then the locking version of this Gotoh vintage tuner could be substituted within less than 5 minutes and minimal tools or effort. I use the specifications of these Gotoh machines as my reference point - I try to avoid getting bogged down fooling with somewhat alike (but slightly different specs) on the products from WD, Wilkinson or Ping.
burtwangcaster
Tele-Holic
If you really think you want locking tuners, Sperzel makes vintage style in several finishes. Sometimes hard to find but try 'Specialty Guitars' or call Sperzel in Chicago,Ill.
To directly answer the OP's question, I personally have a lot of experience with and fondness for these:
Gotoh SDS510HAPM
Somewhere on the forum I did a mini-review of these; short version - they do a phenomenal job, and these ones are more rock solid than the SD91 HAPM ones.
They are post-height adjustable by the user, so that you can set the stagger how you like, and they use their Magnum lock system, whereby the tuning-up tension takes care of the locking process.
They look virtually identical to a set of Klusons, front and back, mount in the same holes as those, and very much look the part.
I can't recommend these enough for those who want to locking-tuner modify without re-drilling.
As for the subject of whether they're useful on a non-trem guitar...
I can say for my part, it makes a huge difference in stability. I bend strings a lot during regular playing; these make things super-stable for me.
If the OP chooses to go this route, I'm sure he'll be happy with the results.
Gotoh SDS510HAPM
Somewhere on the forum I did a mini-review of these; short version - they do a phenomenal job, and these ones are more rock solid than the SD91 HAPM ones.
They are post-height adjustable by the user, so that you can set the stagger how you like, and they use their Magnum lock system, whereby the tuning-up tension takes care of the locking process.
They look virtually identical to a set of Klusons, front and back, mount in the same holes as those, and very much look the part.
I can't recommend these enough for those who want to locking-tuner modify without re-drilling.
As for the subject of whether they're useful on a non-trem guitar...
I can say for my part, it makes a huge difference in stability. I bend strings a lot during regular playing; these make things super-stable for me.
If the OP chooses to go this route, I'm sure he'll be happy with the results.
Emil Andersson
Tele-Meister
Thanks! I'm gonna go with GOTOH Kluson. Rock Solid. SDS510HAPM-N
Why does every other guy try to convince me NOT to buy locking tuners..?
I love the vintage look but want the stability of locking tuners. Are they bad in any way??
Why does every other guy try to convince me NOT to buy locking tuners..?
I love the vintage look but want the stability of locking tuners. Are they bad in any way??
Tommy Gereg
Tele-Meister
I use lockers (mostly Sperzel) on my trem equipped Strats to help tuning stability but for my Tele's I prefer the Gotoh Vintave Kluson style tuners. No tuning issues with a properly cut nut and I can hear a noticeable difference in the acoustic sound of the guitar compared to the heavier standard Fender tuners.
For me the slot head style tuners are the nicest tuners available as far as changing strings is concerned. No more poking holes in the fingers changing strings.
If you want vintage lockers the(link removed) tuners work great but you lose the benefit of the slot head which is what many find the most attractive asset.
Good luck.
For me the slot head style tuners are the nicest tuners available as far as changing strings is concerned. No more poking holes in the fingers changing strings.
If you want vintage lockers the(link removed) tuners work great but you lose the benefit of the slot head which is what many find the most attractive asset.
Good luck.
Rob DiStefano
Doctor of Teleocity
to the op - you asked for opinions, you got 'em.
<opinion rant on>
like everything about guitars, and most other stuff in life, if there are choices it will always boil down to personal preferences that are based on many many reasons, some factual, some ignorant, and some just plain dumb because facts are ignored.
i'll repeat - there is NO valid reason for using locking tuners, particularly those pita top lockers, on non-trem guitars. their added construction complexity and parts and use process, are things not needed. yeah, the argument about fast string changes at gigs always surfaces, and maybe that's a good thing, i dunno, i can change a kluson style tuner string seconds late of how fast a locking tuner string can be changed.
dunno why i don't like top locking tuners? you may find out on yer own after messing with 'em, is all i can say. you be the judge.
for all vintage kluson style tuners on parallel head guitar necks, if you have a pair of string trees (b/e and d/g), measure and cut each string 3 tuner lengths away from the tuner post you want the string to go on. this gives more than enuf string down the hole and around the post to keep any string from ever slipping. period.
if you have only one string tree (b/e), the concern is not about strings slipping, it's about achieving the proper rearward angle of the string as it passes over the nut. with standard vintage kluson style tuners, the d&g strings Must have more wraps around their posts to achieve that good string angle - 5 posts away for the d and 6 posts away from the g. that's a lotta winding, but the results are worth the efforts, and you do have a string winder?
if you have staggered vintage kluson style tuners, all strings can be cut at the 3 post away mark ... the need for a b/e string tree Might still be required, it depends on how deep the headstock falls down from the fingerboard. this would be my go-to gigging tele tuner type.
my thoughts on locking tuners, part deux ...
1. always rear lockers over top lockers, as the screw heads on toppers are annoying to deal with for both winding on and winding off, and they do get stuck at times. yer call.
2. there are bad rear locking tuners. the one and only bad brand i know of is ... sperzel. for three reasons - they all have a low tuning ratio of 12:1 and 10:1, the rear locking wheel is the thickness of a dime and hurts yer fingers to lock down Tight, for whatever reason they are an inferior build of materials and i replace crapped out sperzels for customers on a monthly basis. i dunno how that company stays in business and why so many stock guitars sport that crap.
3. there are some truly excellent rear lockers - hipshot vintage staggers are my faves, schallers (they're heavy but built like a panzer tank), planet waves and a few others. all of these are well made, have high gear ratios and are easy to use.
<opinion rant over>
ymmv.
<opinion rant on>
like everything about guitars, and most other stuff in life, if there are choices it will always boil down to personal preferences that are based on many many reasons, some factual, some ignorant, and some just plain dumb because facts are ignored.
i'll repeat - there is NO valid reason for using locking tuners, particularly those pita top lockers, on non-trem guitars. their added construction complexity and parts and use process, are things not needed. yeah, the argument about fast string changes at gigs always surfaces, and maybe that's a good thing, i dunno, i can change a kluson style tuner string seconds late of how fast a locking tuner string can be changed.
dunno why i don't like top locking tuners? you may find out on yer own after messing with 'em, is all i can say. you be the judge.
for all vintage kluson style tuners on parallel head guitar necks, if you have a pair of string trees (b/e and d/g), measure and cut each string 3 tuner lengths away from the tuner post you want the string to go on. this gives more than enuf string down the hole and around the post to keep any string from ever slipping. period.
if you have only one string tree (b/e), the concern is not about strings slipping, it's about achieving the proper rearward angle of the string as it passes over the nut. with standard vintage kluson style tuners, the d&g strings Must have more wraps around their posts to achieve that good string angle - 5 posts away for the d and 6 posts away from the g. that's a lotta winding, but the results are worth the efforts, and you do have a string winder?
if you have staggered vintage kluson style tuners, all strings can be cut at the 3 post away mark ... the need for a b/e string tree Might still be required, it depends on how deep the headstock falls down from the fingerboard. this would be my go-to gigging tele tuner type.
my thoughts on locking tuners, part deux ...
1. always rear lockers over top lockers, as the screw heads on toppers are annoying to deal with for both winding on and winding off, and they do get stuck at times. yer call.
2. there are bad rear locking tuners. the one and only bad brand i know of is ... sperzel. for three reasons - they all have a low tuning ratio of 12:1 and 10:1, the rear locking wheel is the thickness of a dime and hurts yer fingers to lock down Tight, for whatever reason they are an inferior build of materials and i replace crapped out sperzels for customers on a monthly basis. i dunno how that company stays in business and why so many stock guitars sport that crap.
3. there are some truly excellent rear lockers - hipshot vintage staggers are my faves, schallers (they're heavy but built like a panzer tank), planet waves and a few others. all of these are well made, have high gear ratios and are easy to use.
<opinion rant over>
ymmv.
BartS
Friend of Leo's
Wasn't trying to talk you out of them. It's just if someone went to the doctor and told them they were having problems standing up when they were drunk and asked for locking feet I don't think any doctor in their right mind would recommend them a nice vintage set of locking feet with out also telling them the real problem is they should probably lay off the sauce a bit.
Emil Andersson
Tele-Meister
Haha! Okay..!
Thanks for the info. I really do appreciate it!
I simply don't know if there was a down side of using locking tuners.
The Baja got me so frustrated every time I changed the strings, no matter how many wraps or in what way i put the strings on. It just turned me off so bad..
And I have never ever had any trouble with my locking tuners on the strat. Then again I have never had any trouble with any other guitar tuners than the ones on the Baja. Hmm.
Well, I'll let you know in a couple of weeks or so what I get
Have a nice day my friends!
Thanks for the info. I really do appreciate it!
I simply don't know if there was a down side of using locking tuners.
The Baja got me so frustrated every time I changed the strings, no matter how many wraps or in what way i put the strings on. It just turned me off so bad..
And I have never ever had any trouble with my locking tuners on the strat. Then again I have never had any trouble with any other guitar tuners than the ones on the Baja. Hmm.
Well, I'll let you know in a couple of weeks or so what I get
Have a nice day my friends!
The Baja got me so frustrated every time I changed the strings, no matter how many wraps or in what way i put the strings on. It just turned me off so bad..
Humor me for a second.
Pretend you are the string, a string cut to length and which starts down in the central hole of a Gotoh split. Okay, you come to daylight and make a 90 degree bend and travel along the top of the slot and make a second 90 degree bend and begin coiling down and around the post several full rotations and then you vector off towards the nut slot, possibly intercepted in part by a string tree and then continuing towards the saddle.
Now, pretend you will do this voyage more precisely if you use pliers to put those 90 degree turns in there instead of relying on happenstance and further, you painstakingly guide the coil of string like forming a spring so the string never trips over itself and there's no somewhat slack areas anywhere on the post. And it looks like a spring. (later you can detension any or all of these string "nests" and pop them entirely off the post and guess what, they stay in shape! And you can drop the "nest" back over the post and retension if you ever want to. YOU MADE A SPRING).
IMO what's happening here is Rob is so accustomed to installing strings he can't see the confusion and uncertainty others feel doing this. The way I just described to you is almost certainly too much trouble for Rob (or maybe he's doing it to some degree and has forgotten he's doing it) but for those trying to break into using splits, there's nothing better.
It is like the kid across the street who wants to keep his training wheels on, until he loses them and is forced to do without and suddenly he has no idea what he was so afraid of. One minute Much Fear, moments later No Fear.
Hey rob - the got oh style lockers aren't top or bottom lockers as far as my understanding goes, as you turn the tuning peg the lock the string. This may be what you are talking about.
I personally don't use lockers but I'm told these work really well.
I personally don't use lockers but I'm told these work really well.
Proper stringing technique and proper tuning technique will eliminate any tuning problems given good precise gears in the machines...locking does nothing for any guitar...trem or non-trem, ime. One can perhaps win the argument of esae of stringing...unless the person restringing hassome experience...adn then the locking tuner has no advantages over the non-locking tuner. The locking tuner...given the same housing and gears....are heavier, though.
Himt: always tune up to the note...never tune down from being sharp andleave the string there. IT WILL slip and go flat when you bend it if you stop on the way down to tune the string.
Himt: always tune up to the note...never tune down from being sharp andleave the string there. IT WILL slip and go flat when you bend it if you stop on the way down to tune the string.
I am with Wally on this. The vintage tuners are stable and easy to use. I have a Bigsby on my Baja...obviously you don't do dive bombs with a Bigsby, but I give it a good workout, as well as whole step bends all the time....no issues. Of course I keep the nut lubed with graphite, but I do that on all my guitars.
I agree that lockers make it faster (but not much) to change strings, but for me that's the only advantage.
