VHT 12/20 vs Vox TB18C1.... which one?

[carbon ribs]

Hey everyone I am in the market for an Americanish voiced 6V6 tube amp and these two are at the top of my list. I doubt too many people have experience with both but maybe I'll get lucky and somebody will.

The things I like about the VHT:
PTP wiring
Ability to try different tubes (although I'll probably stick to 6V6's in the end)
Everything I have read seems to say it sounds like a PR with more mids and a 12" speaker

Things I like about the Vox TB
Hi and Low inputs
Master volume
Mids and Dark switch seem to give good versatility

I'll probably end up swapping speakers down the road in either, so the stock speaker isn't a huge deal for me. They both seem to be really nice clean pedal friendly amps that have an American style, but with their own flavor as well.

Unfortunately I can't try either one out as no stores in my area carry either one.

So what do the TDPRIers say? Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[filmix2]

The VHT 12/20 is a souped up and cathode biased Fender Princeton circuit. The mods they added are smart and worhtwhile. I would strongly consider this!

 

[carbon ribs]

The VHT 12/20 is a souped up and cathode biased Fender Princeton circuit. The mods they added are smart and worhtwhile. I would strongly consider this!

The Princeton like qualities are definitely what excites me the most about the 12/20

 

[TNO]

I heard a 12/20 compared to a SFPR and it was much louder and fuller. Definitely gig gable. Haven't there been some issues with this amp though?

 

[carbon ribs]

I heard a 12/20 compared to a SFPR and it was much louder and fuller. Definitely gig gable. Haven't there been some issues with this amp though?

From what I've gathered it's been pot/wiring issues that normally happen within the first month or so. Also it seems the RT model with reverb and tremolo was more prone to the issues. I'm interested in the base model without those and I'll be buying with the ability to return.

Good to hear that it had a louder fuller tone than the SFPR though!!

 

[410DeVille]

I have a 12/20. I use it for band rehearsals. It sounds great.

Isn't the Vox much more expensive?

 

[carbon ribs]

I have a 12/20. I use it for band rehearsals. It sounds great. Isn't the Vox much more expensive?

The Vox is $100 more new, but used they are similar. The 35 watt version of the Vox is quite a bit more, maybe that's the one you are thinking of.

So far I'm seeing a lot of love for the 12/20 and nothing for the Vox.... Anybody using a TB18C1??

 

[Chicago Slim]

I've only had a TB18C1 for a couple of months. I've only found three other guy's that own them, on another forum. I also own a modified VHT Special 6 combo. So, I'll try to be objective. I've played vintage Fenders for over 30 years. I have since sold all of my vintage amps, when I found modern amps (I won't bring the other brands into this, unless you ask), that I liked better.

First let me tell you about my VHT Special 6. The combo is small, heavy (MFD) and boxy sounding. After trying several speakers, I found that I liked the Eminence Legend 105-16, the best. It increased the volume and clean headroom, while giving the amp more of a Fender like sound. I'm using NOS tubes. A Tung Sol 5881, which gives me about 10 watts. The pre-amp tube is a GE 6811, which is a military grade 12AX7, made for use in Korean war era walkie talkies. I also use the 6811's in the TB18C1.

The TB18C1 is a Tony Bruno design. It's a large amp. It's a little taller than a Hot Rod Deluxe. I use a hot Rod Deluxe amp cover on it. The amp still only weighs 39 lbs, due to all plywood construction. I'm running the GE 6811 pre-amp tubes, and JJ 6V6S power tubes. I replaced the speaker with an Eminence neodymium Lil' Texas. I didn't like the Celestion G12-65, but I rarely like Celestion speakers, as I'm a Fender guy.

Sound: The TB18C1 beats most amps, for a Fender like sound. This includes my blackface Deluxe Reverb, Bassman and Band Master. The JJ 6V6S's have a sound that's pretty close to TS 5881's, that I've used in vintage Fenders and my VHT. The Vox has a lot more low end, than most Fender amps. Not as much headroom as a Twin Reverb, but still more than the 6V6 Fenders. I scoop the Mids with the EQ on the Vox, for a blackface sound. The MID switch is very usable, but it doesn't have a foot switch. The VHT has an OK blackface sound, and a really good tweed sound, with the Boost on. Sound wise, the Special 6, actually reminds me of an old tweed Deluxe that I once owned. But, I don't think that the VHT 12/20 is made to do that sound. The Boost is foot switchable. But, the volume difference has been too much for me to use it, in a live setting.

Construction: I like the turret board wiring of the VHT's. I have never been able t fix a PCB amp. I hate the weight and sound of particle board. I think that a head version VHT amp, with a plywood cabinet, would sound much better. The TB18C1 is a little odd. It has a closed back, which is something that I'm not used to. I worry about heat problems, although I haven't had any. The back is held on with 23 screws, and is a PITA to remove. Nine of the screws hold the chassis in place. It is very solid, without any rattles.

I hope this helps.



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[carbon ribs]

Thanks for weighing in Chicago Slim. I think the 12/20 is more blackface than the Special 6 is.

If you had to do it all over would you still buy the Vox?

 

[410DeVille]

First let me tell you about my VHT Special 6. The combo is small, heavy (MFD) and boxy sounding.

Since we are talking about the 12/20, that particular amp has a finger jointed birch plywood cab. My VHT Special 6 112VHT cab is finger jointed birch plywood also.

 

[Chicago Slim]

Thanks for weighing in Chicago Slim. I think the 12/20 is more blackface than the Special 6 is.

If you had to do it all over would you still buy the Vox?

Yes! The Vox is the best Fender sounding amp that I have. I like the Master Volume on the amp. I once owned a Rivera era Pro Reverb, with a Master Volume. This is amp amp most people would give their left nut for. I thought that it sounded awful.

I bought the TB18C1 after hearing from a couple of Vox owners. One sold his TB35C2 after getting the TB18C1. He said that it made his other amp sound like it had a blanket thrown over it. The other sold his Vox AC30HW2. He also liked the sound of the TB18C1, better. I don't know how much the weight of the other amps, played into their choice. They both stuck with the Celestion G12-65.

It's not a perfect amp, but I like it better than the Fender re-issues. VHT and Laney are both amps that I would consider.

 

[zeoy]

Another vote for the VHT. I have the 12/20RT and it's a great sounding amp. It definitely has the BF Fender sound with a little bit less scoop in the mids and without any harshness in the highs. Very loud (esp. with 6L6's) but plays great at apartment levels thanks to the powerscaling.
Reverb and tremolo of the RT model are to die for.

 

[MadJack]

I was looking at both of these amps as an alternative to the PRRI during my amp shopping phase, before I got my AC15. Both are really good amps from what I've read, but I think of the two, I favored the TB18C1 a bit more. The only thing I wasn't to sure about is the Celestion speaker and whether or not an "American Voiced" speaker might do a bit better for an "American" sound. The Mid Boost also seems to give a bit of the Tweed flavor to the tones, which would be a nice feature.

 

[Chicago Slim]

I was looking at both of these amps as an alternative to the PRRI during my amp shopping phase, before I got my AC15. Both are really good amps from what I've read, but I think of the two, I favored the TB18C1 a bit more. The only thing I wasn't to sure about is the Celestion speaker and whether or not an "American Voiced" speaker might do a bit better for an "American" sound. The Mid Boost also seems to give a bit of the Tweed flavor to the tones, which would be a nice feature.

MadJack, you hit the nail on the head. I only made it a week, trying to break in the speaker, before I had to change it. It was sounding better, but it didn't really match the sound of the amp. I now have a speaker that costs one quarter ($159), of what I paid for the entire amp, sitting, not being used. I like the Vox sound, and I'm trying to figure out, if I will ever use it. I have a Kustom V15, with a Laney 10" speaker that gives me good Vox like sounds. The Laney Cub 10 is another amp that came with a speaker, that didn't match the 6V6 amp.

Anyway, the TB18C1 does cover Blackface to Tweed sounds, with the Eminence Li' Texas speaker. And, I really like the Mid Boost. They just should have made it foot switchable.