Fretboard Logic

[Thorpey]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0962477060/ref=aw_cr_d_books

I came across this whilst looking for a good & organised (& affordable, don't have the cash for a teacher) way of learning the CAGED system & major scale theory...

... Anyone have any experience with this book?

Cheers fellas, you're the greatest!

 

[boneyguy]

Here's everything I know (or think I know) about the subject of CAGED.
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CAGED describes the naturally occurring pattern that exists on the fretboard in standard tuning. Whether you are aware of the CAGED pattern or not you are using it while playing because it's how the guitar is designed. You cannot not use it. You can be unaware that you are using it though.

The letters "C,A,G,E,D" refer to the open position chords that we all know down around the first few frets of the guitar. The CAGED system shows how those same chord shapes can be moved up and down the guitar neck.

Personally I think it's much more useful to think of CAGED as octave shapes but usually it's taught as chord shapes which I think does it a great disservice. If you begin by learning CAGED as octave shapes then you can see quickly that it applies not only to chords but also scales and arpeggios and licks and phrases etc. Because CAGED describes the 'architecture' of the fretboard it is applicable to any aspect of music as it applies to the guitar.

Once you begin to see this pattern in numerous keys, all over the neck it really quickly opens up your playing and understanding of the guitar. It's like having a roadmap that allows you to see exactly where you are and where you are going so it drastically reduces the probability of getting lost on the fretboard and dramatically increases the probability that you can play what you are hearing in your head.

Some people will argue that CAGED is simply one way of organizing the fretboard and they will talk about using arpeggios and intervals etc. as a method of navigating the fretboard but what they aren’t' understanding is that those are simply smaller sub-patterns of CAGED. CAGED is the master pattern that determines the shape and location of intervals, arpeggios, scales and chords.


CAGED is more than just one way to see the guitar out of many other ways. It is the map of how the architecture of the fretboard is laid out in standard tuning.

Let's be clear. CAGED is not a musical concept or music theory. It is a very clear and concise map of the guitar fretboard.

So comparing it to learning scales for instance as a way of learning the fretboard is not an appropriate comparison. Scales are a musical concept. CAGED is not.

CAGED is simply a physical mapping of the fretboard. It's not interpretive, it's literal. In fact I think of CAGED as a meta-map. It's the master map that all other maps, such as major scales, are simply sub-categories or sub-divisions of.

I think the most useful way to begin seeing CAGED is with octave shapes. That's the most basic map of CAGED and in my opinion by far the most useful.

Many people seem to have the limited notion that CAGED is strictly about moving open chord shapes up and down the neck. I think this is the most limiting and the least useful notion of what CAGED is.

Learn the 5 CAGED octave shapes first and it will set you free!!

After that you can begin moving chords and scales around the fretboard using CAGED and it will all look very logical, connected and systematic.


C

A

G

E

D

Here's another view of the octave shapes in the cowboy chord area of the fretboard.

Here's a G major scale. Using the 5 octave shapes I've shown above you should be able to see all 5 octave shapes within this G major scale. (You could think of these shapes as outlining the modes of the G major scale if you’re inclined to think that way.) Two shapes will be repeated of course because a major scale has 7 notes.

image removed



The diagram shows the octave shapes (CAGED shapes) within one scale form .

image removed


Note - - CAGED shape
F#/ G - - E shape -
A - - - - G shape
B/C - - - A shape
D - - - - C shape
E - - - - D shape

Do you see it now?

It should also become apparent now that CAGED also applies to modes, right? Not just major scales that are visually referenced from the low E string.

The CAGED octaves are everywhere and are equally applicable to any arpeggio, any scale or any mode


CAGED is not a system per se and is not the equivalent of other organizational views.

CAGED is the map that shows how to apply musical information on the fretboard in a patterned and predictable manner.

CAGED is not a musical idea. It is a direct mapping of the fretboard. It has no other application musically like scales do. It is a model of how the actual architecture of the fretboard is designed. It is guitar centric and not applicable to other instruments in the way scales are because it is not an organizing principle of music like scales are.


So CAGED is the meta pattern that dictates how everything works on the fretboard including scales, intervals, chords, arpeggios.

In actuality the true master pattern of the fretboard is the open string tuning and that's what sets the pattern for CAGED.

CAGED is the equivalent of a map of a city. It simply shows the design of the place but makes no attempt to show the activities that take place within that design. Of course those activities (scales, chords etc) conform to the 'shape' of the place (CAGED) but they are not the equivalent of the place itself.

So when a person believes they are using scales or intervals or diminished triad shapes to organize and navigate the fretboard they are only sort of right because in fact it's the CAGED pattern that's creating the patterns that they're seeing in those scales etc.

Using particular scales, chords, arpeggios etc is a choice. Using the pattern that CAGED describes is not. Being aware that we're all using it all the time is another matter.
__________________

 

[Space Pickle]

IMO this book is pointless. I will never understand the inclination of guitar players to search for bizarre shortcuts in the pursuit of learning how to play.

No offense intended, Thorpey, I realize that's not your position and you're just asking about it.

 

[Hoopermazing]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0962477060/ref=aw_cr_d_books

I came across this whilst looking for a good & organised (& affordable, don't have the cash for a teacher) way of learning the CAGED system & major scale theory...

... Anyone have any experience with this book?

Cheers fellas, you're the greatest!

Book schmook. I like the actual neuroplastic feedback afforded by fretboard mastery software. Specifically, Absolute Fretboard Training Software

http://www.absolutefretboard.com/aft/software.htm

Ditto for everything else: interval training, sight reading, the study of theory etc... For me, software > book in every case. (In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a medical IT specialist and I've had a computer since 1978. So, I my opinions might reflex a greater consumption of computer Kool Aid.)

 

[Seasicksailor]

That's an excellent analysis Boney! A lot of things in there that I knew but did not 'see'. If you know what I mean.

 

[Thorpey]

IMO this book is pointless. I will never understand the inclination of guitar players to search for bizarre shortcuts in the pursuit of learning how to play.

No offense intended, Thorpey, I realize that's not your position and you're just asking about it.

Yup I totally agree! I was just looking for a sort of guide line... Otherwise all the time in the woodshed could end up being fruitless! This stuff looks real good though Glenn! You're a gem mate!

 

[guitar dan]

I've never read the Fretboard Logic Books, but I have learned the CAGED system a long time ago and use it in my playing everyday. It's no short cut at all. It's way of understanding how these shapes connect the fretboard... chords, scales, and arpeggios.

Joe Pass used it. If it was good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

I do teach the CAGED system in my lessons, and I will be glad to email a copy if you'd like. Just send me a PM.

 

[Thorpey]

One thing I am finding that helps me is an idea I pinched from klasaine, singing the notes as I'm playing them in the major scale... Helps me memorise the fretboard too (since I don't know it all yet - even after the past 5/6 years of playing lol)

 

[boneyguy]

IMO this book is pointless. I will never understand the inclination of guitar players to search for bizarre shortcuts in the pursuit of learning how to play.

No offense intended, Thorpey, I realize that's not your position and you're just asking about it.

Bizarre shortcut?! I think you don't really understand what CAGED is about. The ironic thing is that you yourself use it every time you play whether you know it or not.

Learning the design of the fretboard is about as far from pointless as you can get I'd think. It's one of the keys to truly mastering the instrument.

I think the book in question is far from being pointless. I also think it's far from the best presentation of CAGED.

 

[eclipse]

In my opinion this is a better book for learning the fretboard.

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Fretboard-Workbook-Barrett-Tagliarino/dp/0634049011

 

[P Thought]

Great post, boneyguy! I owe my firstborn guitar to CAGED, though when I first learned the five scales I didn't know they were called that. It's taken me from hopeless to somewhat-competent-and-growing, in a relatively short time. I love your diagrams, too, as well as your explanations.


Edit:

@ Thorpey, I started playing guitar at about age 23. I wish I'd started then where you're starting now. Keep learning about music, while you're learning to play; you'll be really good when you're an old man like me.

@ Space Pickle, it ain't pointless. You've just missed the point.

 

[Thorpey]

boneyguy is the man! His posts here have just switched on my metaphorical light bulb!

I always thought of CAGED as being just for major chord shapes that we're moveable up and down the neck... Now I realise that for me personally it holds the key to all the music theory that I have absorbed over the years and will 'set me free'!

 

[boneyguy]

boneyguy is the man! His posts here have just switched on my metaphorical light bulb!

I always thought of CAGED as being just for major chord shapes that we're moveable up and down the neck... Now I realise that for me personally it holds the key to all the music theory that I have absorbed over the years and will 'set me free'!

Great.

It's the Fretboard Logic book that I mostly blame for giving people the idea that CAGED is only about moving 5 chord shapes up and down the neck. Too bad really because those books are so popular and they could have easily provided much more useful information to a lot of people in my opinion.

 

[Boubou]

A few years ago I made an excel representation of the fretboard. Can not remember how I figured out the notes , however I remember being amazed at the patterns I saw doing it. Maybe I'll try to do it again

 

[Thorpey]

A few years ago I made an excel representation of the fretboard. Can not remember how I figured out the notes , however I remember being amazed at the patterns I saw doing it. Maybe I'll try to do it again

I'm in the process of making a representation in my brain amazing what you see as you move forward with this stuff... I now have a systematic way to work out the location of any given note, as well as the major & minor scale and major & minor chord shapes that accompany each particular root note in a given key... All in the space of several days.

I'm not a whizz with this stuff yet, but at least I now have a systematic approach, eventually there should be relatively little thought required

 

[MrTwang]

Joe Pass used it. If it was good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

Well, Luther Perkins didn't and that's good enough for me

 

[vincent]

Boneyguy, I like your breakdown and explanation. I can say, I now "see" things differently. And as mentioned, I think most guitarist use some form of this visualization whether they realize it or not. It may be just one other possible way to map the fretboard but I like looking at things from different angles. It opens up the possibilities. I may make connections that have previously alluded me.

 

[JayFreddy]

Here's everything I know (or think I know) about the subject of CAGED...

Great post Boney, thanks. I still like to teach CAGED as it relates to chord forms, but I teach it as major chords first, then minor chords, then I like to explore the octaves and show how every other chord flavor can be played as 5 forms up the neck as well.

In other words, you've won me over, but old habits die hard!

Well, Luther Perkins didn't (use CAGED) and that's good enough for me

Actually, Luther DID use it, but either he didn't know it, or he did know it, and you just don't realize it...

IMO this book is pointless. I will never understand the inclination of guitar players to search for bizarre shortcuts in the pursuit of learning how to play.

No offense intended, Thorpey, I realize that's not your position and you're just asking about it.

I think you should apologize to Boney. He took some serious time to type a very detailed and considered response, and by posting like this right after him, it shows you either you didn't bother to read what Boney wrote, or you did read it but decided to insult him anyway.

...In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a medical IT specialist and I've had a computer since 1978. So, I my opinions might reflex a greater consumption of computer Kool Aid...

Yes, you need to be able to read in order to realize the full value of books!

 

[boneyguy]

Great post Boney, thanks. I still like to teach CAGED as it relates to chord forms, but I teach it as major chords first, then minor chords, then I like to explore the octaves and show how every other chord flavor can be played as 5 forms up the neck as well.

In other words, you've won me over, but old habits die hard!

Thanks Jay. That sounds like a fine way to teach CAGED. I think at some point the octave thing should be made explicit because it's a gall darn powerful organizational tool (according to me at least).

 

[Big John Studd]

IMO this book is pointless. I will never understand the inclination of guitar players to search for bizarre shortcuts in the pursuit of learning how to play.

It seems to me that we are talking about a method to learn the notes on the fretboard. I'm not sure that is a "bizarre shortcut in learning how to play". I'd almost say it (or a similar method) is necessary or at least advisable.