lap steel guitar

[Tonii]

Since I've never played this instrument I need help with your purchase.
I am a fingerstyle guitarist on the vintage line of Travis-Atkins but I want to buy a lap steel guitar and learn to play some country and Hawaiian standards.
What confuses me most is the price of these instruments, which ranges from 70-700 euros on ebay.I do music professionally, so I wanted to be such an instrument, but the price is acceptable for my modest budget.
I found G 5715 Gretsch Lap Steel Black Sparkle to me the price seems reasonable but I do not know whether it is a tool for professionals.
I have the misfortune to live in the world in which Hawaiian and country music has never been popular so I do not have the opportunity to meet steel guitar players and ask them for information.All information regarding the lap steel guitars and amplifiers for them are welcome at the end just to add that I have a VOX AC30 Heritage and Marshall AS100D amp for acoustic guitar, so I am interested in whether this is something of which I can use for a lap steel guitar.
Thank you in advance for the advice.

 

[rjones652]

I'm going to let someone else give you advise on the lap steel guitar, cuz all I'll tell you is "pick up an old Harmony with a Hershey Bar or P-13 pickup". It'll be less thn $220 USD + shipping/duties, but you will not regret it.

As far as the amp, you need to decide which way you want to go:

a) CowboyCountry and Hawaiian sound best thru a (painfully) clean amp. And you have that covered.

b) Dirty SW/Spaghetti Western/Jerry Douglas/David Lindley electric lap sounds are best heard thru (imo) a 6v6-based amp...with a 'poorly designed/saggy' B+ power supply. You NEED a muddy/dragging amp to give you that grit and aggression. I prefer a 2x6V6 amp like an old Silvertone 1482 or maybe a Fender Deluxe...but make sure the B+ resistor tree has been tweaked to allow for some sag.

 

[syrynx]

Tonii, (link removed).

I have a Gretsch Electromatic lap steel. They're one of the few companies still making new lap steels. And it sounds great. I didn't want to pay a lot of money for an old one and then break it on the road. When we were making the record we had a bunch of old lap steels lined up, and we tried them one by one. And the new Gretsch sounded the best, so I used that.

I think you'd find it well worth your time to check out the Steel Guitar Forum, and in particular the Steel Without Pedals sub-forum. There's currently an ongoing discussion of the Rogue Jersey Lightning, which is highly regarded by everyone who has posted about it, and which is only about half the price of the Gretsch. Here's a clip of SGF member Doug Beaumier playing a Jersey Lightning.

 

[Dan German]

The Gretsch is an excellent instrument, and you won't go too far wrong if you find a good deal on one. I had one, but never got the hang of playing lap steel, so I sold it (to another TDPRI member, IIRC), but it sounded just fine when people better than me played it.

 

[J. Hayes]

Hey Tonii............

as a long time pedal and lapsteel & Dobro player, the first thing I'd say to you is to make sure you make a good choice in a bar.... I'd stay away from the Stevens or Dobro type bars for lapsteel unless you find one like the Shubb/Pearse which has one rounded end.

As for the steel itself, Chandler makes a very nice lapsteel with a pickup resembling a Gibson "Charlie Christian" type. They've also got a little more wood in them and shaped somewhat like an old Weisenborn guitar.

I have a friend locally who has one of the Gretsch lapsteels and he plays it through a Fender Deluxe Reverb amp and gets "tone to die for" out of the thing....Good luck with whatever you choose.......

I personally have an old Regal (Made in Chicago) from the late forties, a 1960 Supro 8 stringer, and a six string Chandler. I usually play the Supro on gigs as it has the two extra strings. I tune it to B6th........

Here's a shot of my 50 old Supro single eight string lapsteel (on legs)..........JH in Va.

 

[MrEcho]

If country and Hawaiian is your thing, you should also consider getting a console steel guitar like the Fender Deluxe (6 or 8 string) (link removed)
The Fender Pro Junior III is a good steel guitar amp. Small, 15 Watts, but loud.

 

[Tonii]

Now I have some things more clearly, but unfortunately I am not able to choose from, but I have to accept what is offered on eBay in Europe.
Often they have to offer Framus old instruments from the fifties and sixties of whom I know nothing.
Here is one model that is currently on ebay;
Framus 0 / 5 Electra Hawaii-Gitarre Vintage 60er Sammler

(link removed)

 

[MrEcho]

Now I have some things more clearly, but unfortunately I am not able to choose from, but I have to accept what is offered on eBay in Europe.

I see. If availability is an issue take into consideration the Fender FS-52, which was released in 2005, but has been discontinued by now. It's still available at some music stores/online in Europe. It's basically a reissue of the Fender Princeton/Deluxe lap steels from the late 1940s. It's an OK lap steel at a fair price.

 

[Mojohand40]

Here's my thoughts:
I currently own seven different lapsteels (with another on the way...hurry up UPS!!) Off hand I would say none of them were great when I first got them, with the exception of my Dynalap, which was a kit and I built it myself.
All of them had some issue, be it pick-ups and electronics, nuts and bridges, etc.
I have a beautiful 1947-48ish Vega lapsteel that is darn good, but that to needed some work as the pots needed a little TLC, wiring a little shoddy, etc..its old!
My cheapo Rogue model: I replaced the pickup and nut. My cheapo Rondo: Pick up, wiring and pots....my Morrell: New nut...etc.
I have a double neck 6 string that I've replaced all the electronics, nuts and bridges. Basically I bought it for the body.
My Point?!?
Most new lap steels (especially ebay cheap ones) need work...most Vintage lap steels (affordable ones) may need a little work..
the good news...most of the work is very, very easy to do and even a Ebay-cheap-import-dog of a lap steel can be made to sound and play quite good with a little work.
As for an amp..a good clean amp with head room works great for Country or Hawaiin. I use a 65 watt Fender SS amp (the discontinued "Princeton 650") and am very, very happy with it, even for pedal steel.
And for some shameless, self promotion: Check the link on my signature line for my Soundclick page, I just uploaded "Red Sails In the Sunset" recently and that was played on my slightly modded Rogue (or Artisan on Ebay) lap steel.
And DO check out the Steel guitar forum, especially the "Steel Without Pedals" section.

 

[Frontier9]

Hey Tonii,
I have two vintage lap steels - one is beat to hell but plays great and the other has a specific problem that I'd like to bring up after looking at that Framus... seems that the lap steel that I have wasn't made with a thick enough slab of wood, so tuning one string always sends the other strings slightly out of tune. Needless to say, it can get rather frustrating... that Framus looks fairly thin to me, so you might experience the same type of problem with it. However, since it is totally flat on the bottom, I bet you could add a steel plate to make it more rigid if it needs it. That guitar is pretty cool looking, that's for sure...

 

[Tonii]

Here's my thoughts:
I currently own seven different lapsteels (with another on the way...hurry up UPS!!) Off hand I would say none of them were great when I first got them, with the exception of my Dynalap, which was a kit and I built it myself.
All of them had some issue, be it pick-ups and electronics, nuts and bridges, etc.
I have a beautiful 1947-48ish Vega lapsteel that is darn good, but that to needed some work as the pots needed a little TLC, wiring a little shoddy, etc..its old!
My cheapo Rogue model: I replaced the pickup and nut. My cheapo Rondo: Pick up, wiring and pots....my Morrell: New nut...etc.
I have a double neck 6 string that I've replaced all the electronics, nuts and bridges. Basically I bought it for the body.
My Point?!?
Most new lap steels (especially ebay cheap ones) need work...most Vintage lap steels (affordable ones) may need a little work..
the good news...most of the work is very, very easy to do and even a Ebay-cheap-import-dog of a lap steel can be made to sound and play quite good with a little work.
As for an amp..a good clean amp with head room works great for Country or Hawaiin. I use a 65 watt Fender SS amp (the discontinued "Princeton 650") and am very, very happy with it, even for pedal steel.
And for some shameless, self promotion: Check the link on my signature line for my Soundclick page, I just uploaded "Red Sails In the Sunset" recently and that was played on my slightly modded Rogue (or Artisan on Ebay) lap steel.
And DO check out the Steel guitar forum, especially the "Steel Without Pedals" section.

I can not log on steelguitarforum but keep track of what is going on recently with the proviso that I can not ask questions.I have another forum European Steel Guitar Forum in which I tried to login but it seems to be inactive because even though I logged out there for days, but I do not have access.
I listened to all nine tunes on this page and all sounds great, my score is pure ten,so I imagined doing when I get the lap steel guitar.

 

[syrynx]

Tonii, since it may be difficult for you to find a satisfactory lap steel to purchase, you might consider two other options:

Convert an existing guitar for lap steel playing. This is what rjones652 was suggesting in the first reply to your original post, and it is a very good idea. I own "vintage" non-pedal steels-- a ~1960 Fender Deluxe 8 and a ~1958 Fender triple 8 Stringmaster. (They were just inexpensive "used" instruments when I bought them, 30+ years ago!) But for the last several years I've been playing Hawai'ian style on conventional six string guitars equipped with nut extenders. A nut extender simply fits under the strings, over the existing nut. It can be bent metal, like (link removed), or cast metal, like this one. I use three of the cast ones, because the string spacing is wider.

Almost any guitar will work well this way. If you already have one you can dedicate for lap steel use, or if you can find one within your budget, you might not even need the nut extender. Just make a new, tall nut out of animal bone. Some people also raise the bridge, but I have never needed to do so.

Build your own lap steel. This might give you more satisfaction than any other option, because it would be all yours. It could cost nothing at all if you have a pickup and tuners, or it could be as beautiful as you want to make it. There are many home made lap steels described on the Steel Guitar Forum and on YouTube, and there's a Steel Guitar Builder Forum which might be helpful.

 

[Tonii]

I still have not decided what to do and consider all the options ..... I'm interested is there any other differences besides color between these two instruments;
G 5715 Gretsch Lap Steel Black Sparkle and Gretsch G5700 Lap Steel Tobacco Sunburst, because the price is not the same.

 

[MrEcho]

I still have not decided what to do and consider all the options ..... I'm interested is there any other differences besides color between these two instruments;
G 5715 Gretsch Lap Steel Black Sparkle and Gretsch G5700 Lap Steel Tobacco Sunburst, because the price is not the same.

The color is the only difference. It seems that the sparkle finish is more expensive to produce that's why the sunburst version is cheaper.

 

[rjones652]

Tonii, since it may be difficult for you to find a satisfactory lap steel to purchase, you might consider two other options:

Convert an existing guitar for lap steel playing. This is what rjones652 was suggesting in the first reply to your original post, and it is a very good idea.

I like your idea, but it wasn't mine.
Actually, I was referring to something like this pic...that's a "Hershey Bar pickup":

Build your own lap steel. This might give you more satisfaction than any other option, because it would be all yours.

NOW yer talkin!
Gutshot of mine:

 

[syrynx]

I like your idea, but it wasn't mine.

My apologies! I had just posted a clip of Delta Moon's Tom Gray playing a Harmony StratoTone lap-style, and I must have had that notion on the brain.

Actually, I was referring to something like this pic...that's a "Hershey Bar pickup":

Penniless as I am, I'd find a way to pounce on one of those for US$220, but it's been a long time since I've seen one priced that low. I probably haven't been looking hard enough...

Gutshot of mine:

I want to see, hear, and play that guitar! Better yet, it makes me want to gather parts and make my own.

 

[Tonii]

whether it's worth to pay 200 euros, this instrument?

(link removed)

 

[syrynx]

Tonii, from the pictures both the instrument and the case appear to be in excellent condition for 50 year old items. Given its age and the company's history, I suspect that if you buy it and find you don't like it, you probably would be able to resell it for the same price.

 

[RomanS]

whether it's worth to pay 200 euros, this instrument?

(link removed)

Friend of mine had one, doesn' sound so great...

While I haven't tried either, both the current Gretsch Electromatic as wella s the Fender FS52 get mostly bad reviews over on the SteelGuitarForum (check in over there to find some recommendations, as well as used steels).

These here look quite promising and affordable:
(link removed)
(link removed)
http://www.steelguitarshop.de/shop/article_14/ABM-SLIDER-LAPSTEEL.html?shop_param=cid=16&aid=14&

This one (which was also sold under the Johnson brand for a while) should be OK, too - mahogany body, P90 pickup and a solid/fixed bridge are a good recipe for a lap steel...
http://cgi.ebay.at/LAP-STEEL-ELECTR...al_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item43a6e326d8

Another nice looking option:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/NEW-CLEARWATER-PRO-LAP-STEEL/dp/B001KPDZBA

 

[RomanS]

Given its age and the company's history, I suspect that if you buy it and find you don't like it, you probably would be able to resell it for the same price.

I wouldn't be too sure about that - they may seem exotic from an US point-of-view, but over here those are quite common (probably the most common lap steels on German Ebay are the various Framus models), and except for some rare models (like the doublenecks, or the ones with the tuning changer), they don't exactly command collectors' prices...