What is it with the g string?

[spauldingrules]

Make your B a touch flat - helps me out a lot! At least with chords.

 

[Kev G]

How do they cut those fret slots

Originally Posted by Jack Wells
Gee ............. I wonder how they cut these fret slots.

......

This guy does it:


__________________
Crumbs!!
I hope they pay him well, or at least gets some extra oil on his exercise wheel pivot.
Squeak Squeak!

 

[Colt W. Knight]

Gee ............. I wonder how they cut these fret slots.

......

I think they used the headstock to open too many beers before they fretted that neck.

 

[jmoore65]

Isn't it something to do with the fact that in the equal tempered system the major third is the furthest scale note from the corresponding harmonic from the true tempered system? So when you play an E major chord the major third is on the g string and it never sounds quite right - because, well, it actually isn't...

 

[jvanoort]

++what all the others said about the G string.

Also: if you tune up to a perfectly intonated E chord (simple E cowboy chord) you'll notice that it'll sound rubbish if you play a C chord. Same the other way round...
That's where Pythagoras comes into play...
A guitar is a bag of compromises intonation wise...

If it really bugs you: go fretless

 

[Thighbanez]

I think that running 11's will solve any issues with the G-string.
But then you have to grow stronger.

lol...

 

[Deepcabaret]

Being a newbie to Teles - bought mine last week! I have found this thread incredibly helpful. I too noticed the strange predominance and "flatness" of the G string. I took advice from here and swapped to 10s with a wound G and the problem has gone away. These D'Adarios with the wound G are not so easy to get hold of however. I might just have bought the UKs entire stock Thanks again guys.

 

[Kev G]

Being a newbie to Teles - bought mine last week! I have found this thread incredibly helpful. I too noticed the strange predominance and "flatness" of the G string. I took advice from here and swapped to 10s with a wound G and the problem has gone away. These D'Adarios with the wound G are not so easy to get hold of however. I might just have bought the UKs entire stock Thanks again guys.

Funny about you buying out the UK stock of wound "g's", I bought a wad of them last week, at this rate D'adarios will have to send over more supplies!
I also found that my g string bother has almost dissapeared using the wound 3rd.
Thare's just one thing though, I feel I'm having to push further to get a full tone bend?
Maybe it's just my imagination though.

 

[Thighbanez]

Thare's just one thing though, I feel I'm having to push further to get a full tone bend?
Maybe it's just my imagination though.

Nope, it's not your imagination.
It's the main reason I just went up a size in the plain-G-String sizes instead of using the wound G. I do a LOT of bends using the G-String and having to bend it twice the distance to get a full tone bend was just messing me up.
The 0.18 plain-G is a better solution for me than the 0.17 wound-G.

 

[1962guitargeek]

GHS fans, here's an .018 wound g...linky

 

[RocketshipChair]

Ernie Ball was the company that started the unwound g. He noticed that students had a hard time fretting the wound g and started making custom sets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_ball

 

[Kev G]

Just when I thought I knew a bit about guitars I now realise I know very little.
Next step for me is to try the 18 plain as suggested by Thighbanez.
There's some mileage in trying a wound 3rd but having to push it under the 5th and 6th for a full tone is (for me) a push too far.

 

[Wally]

YEs, there is a problem with a plain G string pulling enough tension at pitch and coming to pitch 'perfectly'. Yes, a wound G functions better in this regard. In short, there is very little that is 'perfect' about a fretted stringed instrument....no matter what one does. People with perfect pitch...the few among us...have a terrible time with fretted instruments.
Jefrs hits the nail on the head, though. The staggered polepiece Fender single coils are built for wound G's, which are less powerful magnetically than the plain G. So, unless one pushes that 3rd string polepiece down flush to the bobbin, the plain G string sticks out above the other strings like a sore thumb. PEople have been making this adjustment for decades with the vintage staggered FEnder pickups. When a gutiar is properly set-up and when the pickups have a balanced output from string to string, all of a sudden this imperfect instrument begins to be more musical. I have found that it is a rare event to have the two variables above at work on the same guitar until the guitar is put into the hands of someone who understands the variables. It is amazing to hand a guitar back to someone who has been playing it for many decades and watch as they realize that never once has had it played in tune and been balanced in output....and realize that it is nowmuch more musical than it has ever been.
I also take notice of some other things that might have an influence here.
For those who hear the G flat when sounding that C chord.....check out the pitch of the fretted notes in that chord. Most people use too much fretting pressure and take those fretted notes sharp....and that will make the G sound flat, right? I give a free lesson on this when I hand back guitars that I know are in tune and also play in tune....and the owner plays something and cacophony ensues. Invariably, they are using incorrect fretting technique....away from the fret and/or too much pressure. It is not an 'opinoin' as to placement of the fretting finger and pressure....it is physics. IF you use too much pressure, the notes will be sharp. IF you play away from the fret, you will have to use too much pressure. Results----bad tone, bad intonation, weak sustain, pain in the finger, arm and hand muscles tensed up preventing relaxed movement....and the sdie of the fretting finger does not feel the fret and location on the fretboard is more 'unknown' and indecisive, imho. Carpal tunnel syndrome is on the way possibly, too.

 

[Thighbanez]

I also take notice of some other things that might have an influence here.
For those who hear the G flat when sounding that C chord.....check out the pitch of the fretted notes in that chord. Most people use too much fretting pressure and take those fretted notes sharp....and that will make the G sound flat, right? I give a free lesson on this when I hand back guitars that I know are in tune and also play in tune....and the owner plays something and cacophony ensues. Invariably, they are using incorrect fretting technique....away from the fret and/or too much pressure. It is not an 'opinoin' as to placement of the fretting finger and pressure....it is physics. IF you use too much pressure, the notes will be sharp. IF you play away from the fret, you will have to use too much pressure. Results----bad tone, bad intonation, weak sustain, pain in the finger, arm and hand muscles tensed up preventing relaxed movement....and the sdie of the fretting finger does not feel the fret and location on the fretboard is more 'unknown' and indecisive, imho. Carpal tunnel syndrome is on the way possibly, too.

This is EXACTLY my problem!!
Thank you for explaining it sooo perfectly!
when I fret my fingers are always in the middle of the frets (Like...inbetween the two metal bars) and I always have to press down harder to get my notes to sound cleanly...Thus making my notes play sharp.

How do you get your hand to get closer to the fret without looking at your fretboard and overthinking everything you do? At first I thought that the problem was my new neck and the frets being too high because my old neck didn't have this problem. I could play the old neck in the middle of the frets with a throat-choker grip and everything sounded GREAT! Now this new neck has new frets that are tall and my technique isn't suited to it. I can play without looking at the neck and know where I'm at because I use the sensation of heat on the neck to know where my anchor notes are. (Some people feel the frets, I use bodyheat to locate...guess I'm weird) But I would like my notes to play cleaner without having to choke the neck like I do. I used to be able to play with a light touch with my old neck...this new one makes me fight it.
Darn frets...

 

[Wally]

This is EXACTLY my problem!!
Thank you for explaining it sooo perfectly!
when I fret my fingers are always in the middle of the frets (Like...inbetween the two metal bars) and I always have to press down harder to get my notes to sound cleanly...Thus making my notes play sharp.

How do you get your hand to get closer to the fret without looking at your fretboard and overthinking everything you do? At first I thought that the problem was my new neck and the frets being too high because my old neck didn't have this problem. I could play the old neck in the middle of the frets with a throat-choker grip and everything sounded GREAT! Now this new neck has new frets that are tall and my technique isn't suited to it. I can play without looking at the neck and know where I'm at because I use the sensation of heat on the neck to know where my anchor notes are. (Some people feel the frets, I use bodyheat to locate...guess I'm weird) But I would like my notes to play cleaner without having to choke the neck like I do. I used to be able to play with a light touch with my old neck...this new one makes me fight it.
Darn frets...

My first lesson some 48 years ago was to place the fingertip as close to the fret as possible without being on top of the fret. I was a good student, so I have always played this way. I don't like pain, so I have always played with as little pressure as possible. I have added this 'with as little pressure as possible' to that first lesson I had. This takes care of pressing the note sharp...and you can do that with your finger right next to the fret. IT also takes care of pushing and pulling the string sharp, also.
To get an understanding of how lightly you can fret the string, put your fingertip in the correct position on say the 3rd fret, low E string. Just touch the string...don't press the string down to the fret....touch the string so that the note is 'dead'. PIck continuosly as you very gradually increase the pressure with the fretting finger until the note sounds clearly. This is all of the pressure that one needs to use in fretting. Any more pressure than this will take the note sharp....and cause pain plus unnecessary muscle tension.
In order to establish thismore correct fretting technique as a habit, thigns get more difficult. I would suggest playing scales. Wehn forming chords, do so outside of the context of a song. Just form a chord with attention to fretting technique. IN other words, one has to change the way one plays, and that takes time practicing on technique and not on songs. Boring, perhaps....but, rewarding for sure.

 

[Kev G]

Thanks Wally, thats the best bit of advice I've ever had!
I knew I was sloppy with my fretting but I just pressed harder to make up for inaccurate finger placement. No wonder I get muscle cramping!
I've started today practising with a lighter press and accurate finger placement and already I can see the benifits, so many issues fall by the wayside.
How much nicer it is to be "easy" on the neck instead of trying to throttle it!

 

[Wally]

You are more than welcome, Kev.

 

[silverfrost1]

And this is the only way to fix it properly:

(link removed)

Nice idea, but get serious. Imagine trying to re-fret one of those.

 

[floppus]

At 65 years old and been playing guitar for fun on and off for just over 50 years I thought I'd seen and heard pretty much everything until I fell across this thread.

I have always been frustrated with the 'fickleness' of the g string on all my pure electrics. My acoustics and acoustic/electrics have always been fitted with heavier strings 12's minimum and up to 14's flatwound on my 2 jazz boxes. Most of these sets have included a wound g as a matter of course. Until I read this thread I never associated the thinner set plain g problems that had me fiddling all the time with the tuning and getting truly racked off.

I bought my first (yes really) tele a couple of weeks ago and found this forum and this thread whilst trawling for info. Last week I fitted a set of GHS 'blue boomers' and sure enough got really jacked off by the 'silly' 0.16 plain g.

Today I fitted a d'addario 0.17 nickle wound g. PROBLEM SOLVED. WHOOOO!

It is spot on and fits in well with the gauges of the others around it especially as the boomers are a touch heavier at the bottom end ( 10, 12, 16p now 17w, 28, 38, 48).

Given that my other preferred set was Fender bullet nickel10, 13, 17, 26, 36, 46, which I used on my Burns Marvin I shall now swop the 17p on that to a 17w.

G 17w I now know it makes sense.

 

[Wally]

Yeah, those plain G strings are 'silly' until you want to do some serious bending. James Burton knew what he was doing when he threw away the low E out of those big guage strings..... that were all you could get back in the day, moved the other 5 strings down and put a banjo string on the high E...creating the first modern set of electric strings. The plain G is simply necessary for soem types of playing.
And....I have never had a problem with plain G's. My instruemtns are exactingly set-up and I use proper fretting technique. If I didn't want to do some beding on the G, I would probably play a wound G...but that isn't the case for me. IF I did play a wound G, I would have to readjust my pickup polepieces, too, in addition to making the saddle adjustment.