Filtertrons and Firebird pickups vs PAF’s and P90’s?

[tugboat1980]

I’m chewing on something different than PAF’s. Just don’t find enough difference for me between PAF’s and P90’s, and the differences I do hear I just prefer P90’s.

But I have a nice MIK PRS Singlecut SE, and want to build a second guitar (which will replace the Singlecut). Don’t reeeeaaaalllly need it if I’m being honest but I want to build a second guitar to see if I can build it better than my first one.

Chewing on pickups though. Was set on humbuckers in the neck and bridge, but what about filtertrons and Firebird pickups?

Generally wanting something between a P90 and a Fender. Of course, if I do humbucker routes I can get either pickup in a PAF housing. Also thought about doing P90’s in this guitar, swapping the P90’s from my current DC LPS, and putting Firebird pickups in my DC LPS.

 

[mandoloony]

Generally wanting something between a P90 and a Fender.

I would suggest looking at "staple" pickups. They have P90 coils but magnetic poles, à la Fender - the girth of a P90 mixed with the sparkle and twang of a Tele. The adjustable-pole ones tend to be expensive to build, but there are also non-adjustable ones for much less money. Most come in soapbar covers but I know there are a few builders making them for humbucker-size routes.

 

[Dismalhead]

Filtertrons are a trip, kinda like an airy, jangly humbucker. Not dark, fat, and round like a P90. I'd go to a shop, find a guitar with them, and give it a spin. I bought a MIM Cabronita awhile back, had no idea what they'd sound like, and I absolutely love them.

Never played a guitar with mini-humbuckers. Always wondered what they were like.

 

[tugboat1980]

Filtertrons are a trip, kinda like an airy, jangly humbucker. Not dark, fat, and round like a P90. I'd go to a shop, find a guitar with them, and give it a spin. I bought a MIM Cabronita awhile back, had no idea what they'd sound like, and I absolutely love them.

Never played a guitar with mini-humbuckers. Always wondered what they were like.

The sound clips I’ve heard of Firebird pickups (different than minis) make them sound like the snap of a fender without the twang of a fender. Really interesting. Kinda leaning them, even filtertrons seem to have the loose low end of a humbucker if the sound clips are anything to go by.

I may have to try a Gretsch just to see for myself though.

 

[tugboat1980]

I would suggest looking at "staple" pickups. They have P90 coils but magnetic poles, à la Fender - the girth of a P90 mixed with the sparkle and twang of a Tele. The adjustable-pole ones tend to be expensive to build, but there are also non-adjustable ones for much less money. Most come in soapbar covers but I know there are a few builders making them for humbucker-size routes.

Lollar makes them in a P90 cover. Hadn’t thought about them TBH but may need to.

 

[schmee]

Well..... Filtertrons are a different pickup for sure. To me they are punchy and compressed. Like you are using a compressor, a round edge to the note. For some things that's nice, for other things not so much so.

Where a real P90, (not PAF shaped), is bold and gritty, but a clean edge to the note. The 'Tron is compressed and a bit squishy.... at least in the neck position.
I might be more likely to put a 'Tron in the bridge position.

Firebird pickups are bright and middy, cleanish lows. Minibuckers are similar, but I prefer the Mini's myself, in a neck position. A bit less harsh.
But either can be a bit hard to get away from the pronounced mids when you'd like to.

Of course all the above is a generalism because many other things matter, like amp adjustment, whether you are mainly a neck or bridge pickup player, etc.

I have one guitar I really want to try a staple P90 type in. But they can be expensive....

 

[RockyRules]

I’m chewing on something different than PAF’s. Just don’t find enough difference for me between PAF’s and P90’s, and the differences I do hear I just prefer P90’s.

But I have a nice MIK PRS Singlecut SE, and want to build a second guitar (which will replace the Singlecut). Don’t reeeeaaaalllly need it if I’m being honest but I want to build a second guitar to see if I can build it better than my first one.

Chewing on pickups though. Was set on humbuckers in the neck and bridge, but what about filtertrons and Firebird pickups?

Generally wanting something between a P90 and a Fender. Of course, if I do humbucker routes I can get either pickup in a PAF housing. Also thought about doing P90’s in this guitar, swapping the P90’s from my current DC LPS, and putting Firebird pickups in my DC LPS.

Big difference between PAFs and P-90 for me.
No 1 is the noise levels - almost none v too noisy to even use when applying any gain.
No 2 is general tones - both both pups sound different to my ears when using the correct pot values for each.

Filtertrons are humbuckers and like PAF style pups need 500k pots to sound best.
All humbuckers sound too dark with the 250k pots Fender uses stock imo.
If your PRS has 250k pots (for single coil P-90s) then no humbuckers will sound good in it imo.

Filtertrons sound different to both single coils and other Humbuckers.
I own 2 Gretsch and have played/used 8 different models of Filtertons.
They do not sound compressed or squishy at all imo.

The best filtertrons are made by TV Jones and Gretsch.
They're extremely versatile for any music style, quiet, have extreme clarity and string articulation, more twang than a Tele and sound fantastic from clean clean >> overdrive >>> high gain distortion

 

[tugboat1980]

Big difference between PAFs and P-90 for me.
No 1 is the noise levels - almost none v too noisy to even use when applying any gain.
No 2 is general tones - both both pups sound different to my ears when using the correct pot values for each.

Filtertrons are humbuckers and like PAF style pups need 500k pots to sound best.
All humbuckers sound too dark with the 250k pots Fender uses stock imo.
If your PRS has 250k pots (for single coil P-90s) then no humbuckers will sound good in it imo.

Filtertrons sound different to both single coils and other Humbuckers.
I own 2 Gretsch and have played/used 8 different models of Filtertons.
They do not sound compressed or squishy at all imo.

The best filtertrons are made by TV Jones and Gretsch.
They're extremely versatile for any music style, quiet, have extreme clarity and string articulation, more twang than a Tele and sound fantastic from clean clean >> overdrive >>> high gain distortion

My PRS has had electronics swapped, 500k pots with Gibson 50’s wiring. Thus far I have no noise issues with P90’s, even with gain. My p90 guitar also has 500k pots with Gibson 50’s wiring.

 

[Wayne Alexander]

Filtertron tonal references

Malcolm Young's rhythm guitar parts in all AC/DC songs (a Gretsch Jet (solidbody) through a cranked Marshall)
Most of Pete Townshend's sounds on the Who's Next Album (a Gretsch 6120 (hollowbody) through a cranked Tweed Bandmaster)
Most of Brian Setzer's work (a Gretsch 6120 hollowbody through a cranked Blonde Bassman)

Note, in a Tele they won't sound as "Gretschy" as they do in a Gretsch, due to different construction, hardware, etc.

 

[beep.click]

Filtertrons sound different to both single coils and other Humbuckers.
I own 2 Gretsch and have played/used 8 different models of Filtertons.
They do not sound compressed or squishy at all imo.

The best filtertrons are made by TV Jones and Gretsch.
They're extremely versatile for any music style, quiet, have extreme clarity and string articulation, more twang than a Tele and sound fantastic from clean clean >> overdrive >>> high gain distortion

Yes, yes yes yes yes. I have a number of Gretsches with filtertrons, and I would say they’re the most versatile guitars I’ve ever played.

 

[RockyRules]

My PRS has had electronics swapped, 500k pots with Gibson 50’s wiring. Thus far I have no noise issues with P90’s, even with gain. My p90 guitar also has 500k pots with Gibson 50’s wiring.

ok good with the 500k pots.
You must be using very little gain if you have no noise issues with P-90s.
And yes - if you're exclusively a clean player then noise is a non issue

 

[RockyRules]

Filtertron tonal references

Malcolm Young's rhythm guitar parts in all AC/DC songs (a Gretsch Jet (solidbody) through a cranked Marshall)
Most of Pete Townshend's sounds on the Who's Next Album (a Gretsch 6120 (hollowbody) through a cranked Tweed Bandmaster)
Most of Brian Setzer's work (a Gretsch 6120 hollowbody through a cranked Blonde Bassman)

Note, in a Tele they won't sound as "Gretschy" as they do in a Gretsch, due to different construction, hardware, etc.

Yes and add on Billy Gibbons on many early ZZ Top songs.
Plus Neil Young, Jack White, Chris Cornell, Midnight Oil, Chris Cheney on many songs.

 

[jvin248]

.

I have a flat top LP style with a Dynasonic neck and P90 bridge.

My favorite bridge pickups are P90 and Tele. Neck pickups are the ones I play around with.

Dynasonic
Filtertron
Jazzmaster (classic style)
Goldfoil (Ry Cooder started that market trend)
Jaguar singles "with teeth" bracket
Strat (fits diagonal in Humbucker route, use a conversion plate)


.

 

[Hiwatts-n-Gibsons]

I would suggest looking at "staple" pickups. They have P90 coils but magnetic poles, à la Fender - the girth of a P90 mixed with the sparkle and twang of a Tele. The adjustable-pole ones tend to be expensive to build, but there are also non-adjustable ones for much less money. Most come in soapbar covers but I know there are a few builders making them for humbucker-size routes.

This and Dynasonic clones meant to fit a HB route. I have both Seymour Duncan and a Lollar Soap Bar Staples, as well as a TV Jones Dynasonic clone, a Seymour Duncan Dynobucker (HB sized Dynssonic clone), and two new Dearmond Dynasonics. They are all essentially the same pickup design electronically with mostly superficial differences and slight differences in output and tone. My two favorites of them all are the Duncan Custom Shop A5 Staple, and TV Jones T-Armond.

That said they are all hands down on the top tier out of all the gorgeous sounding alnico rod magnet single coils I ever heard including Fender type single coils. A P90 in the bridge with one of the above in the neck is my goto combo on my Gibsons.

A few other TV Jones pickups I can highly recommend are based on the OP's apparant wants...:

Magnatron - the most single coil like HB I ever heard. It has two rod magnet coils next to each other. It kinda reminds me of the love child of a Firebird and a very low output Strat pickup. Very clean, low output, lots of twang, clickity clack, and chime with this one played clean. Nasty and edgy with drive, but it takes more gain or boost to reach breakup. It's very clean, hi-fi, and uncompressed and does not drive an amp hard. Might lack bass for some people. Great in the neck slot of a warm sounding guitar like an SG or LP.

Supertron - basically a Filtertron type humbucker with rails instead of polepieces. It's very even and balanced sounding, it has both great clarity and warmth. The highs are present yet sweet enough to never be harsh. The mids are thick and gravelly with overdrive, distortion or fuzz. The lowend is punchy and clear. It sounds fantastic both clean and dirty. This leans much more toward humbucker tones then single coil tones, but it is one of the clearest, most articulate humbuckers that still has the perfect amount of thickness to it I ever heard. Great in the neck or bridge spot. Hard to compare them to anything out there, and it really is its own beast. Doesn't sound like a regular Filtertron, doesn't sound like a PAF, it could be considered to be the most modern sounding vintage pickup or vice versa imo. It does everything from vintage cleans to metal well.

TV Jones Powertron - This one is the middle ground between a hot PAF and a Filtertron. They are outstanding hard rock and metal pickups tbt, yet are just as amazing at cranking out killer blues and classic rock tones. Take a great sounding hot PAF, and add in a little Filtertron mids and sparkle to it. I had one in the bridge of an SG, and it had major AC/DC vibes through a cranked amp with a Treble Booster.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

TV Jones also make a slightly beefier FilterTron called the PowerTron.
They have a little more oomph but still jangle more than a humbucker.

EDIT: Was writing this while Hiwatts-n-Gibsons was writing the post above...

 

[Hiwatts-n-Gibsons]

Lollar makes them in a P90 cover. Hadn’t thought about them TBH but may need to.

I have both Duncan's and Lollar's Staple pickups. I prefer the Duncan's true to original design look and more important functionality by having the pole piece adjustment screws accessible on the top of the pickup. Both sound great. I cannot fault the Lollars on that front, and they give up the goods in tone.

 

[RomanS]

I'd go Dynasonic (you can get them in P90 or HB size from TV Jones, Gabojo, Mojo UK,...) - not because they are my personal favorite pickup type, but because they fit your description of "between a P90 and a Fender". Dynasonics have all the snap and twang of Fender single coils, but with the added fatness and punch of P90s.

BTW, since staple pickups have been mentioned - they are simply Gibson-made copies of Dynasonics; when Les Paul got his signature guitar from Gibson, he hated the neck pickup, and put a Dynasonic in there; Gibson didn't like their most famous endorser using a competitor's pickup, so they made the staple pickup for Les - pretty much a Dynasonic with rectangular instead of round magnets.

Oh, and there are also P90-style pickups with rod magnets - kinda like a Dynasonic without the adjustment mechanics...

Personally, I don't like Filtertrons - for me they are a combination of the worst aspects of Gibson and Fender pickups - dull, thuddy bass strings (like with a PAF), and super-bright, ice-picky treble strings, like on an underwound Fender SC. I love the exact opposite - snappy bass strings, full sounding treble strings; Dynasonic can get close, by adjusting pickup height (low on the bass side, high on the treble side), and magnet distance (closer to the strings on the bass side, farther away on the treble side).

I love the tones other players get from Filtertrons, but I never found one that worked for me, so YMMV...

 

[RockyRules]

I'd go Dynasonic (you can get them in P90 or HB size from TV Jones, Gabojo, Mojo UK,...) - not because they are my personal favorite pickup type, but because they fit your description of "between a P90 and a Fender". Dynasonics have all the snap and twang of Fender single coils, but with the added fatness and punch of P90s.

BTW, since staple pickups have been mentioned - they are simply Gibson-made copies of Dynasonics; when Les Paul got his signature guitar from Gibson, he hated the neck pickup, and put a Dynasonic in there; Gibson didn't like their most famous endorser using a competitor's pickup, so they made the staple pickup for Les - pretty much a Dynasonic with rectangular instead of round magnets.

Oh, and there are also P90-style pickups with rod magnets - kinda like a Dynasonic without the adjustment mechanics...

Personally, I don't like Filtertrons - for me they are a combination of the worst aspects of Gibson and Fender pickups - dull, thuddy bass strings (like with a PAF), and super-bright, ice-picky treble strings, like on an underwound Fender SC. I love the exact opposite - snappy bass strings, full sounding treble strings; Dynasonic can get close, by adjusting pickup height (low on the bass side, high on the treble side), and magnet distance (closer to the strings on the bass side, farther away on the treble side).

I love the tones other players get from Filtertrons, but I never found one that worked for me, so YMMV...

What models of Filtertron and Dynasonics have you owned ??

 

[RomanS]

What models of Filtertron and Dynasonics have you owned ??

Filtertrons:
Gretsch HS (in a Gretsch ProJet, as replacement for the stock miniHBs), and in a homemade Cabronita-style Tele); TV Jones Classic (in a Black Phoenix - a seriously underwhelming guitar, all flash, but very dead-sounding...)

Dynasonics:
Gretsch-made ones from about 10-15 years ago (in the same ProJet); current Guild ones (a bit brighter/lower output - also in that ProJet, and on a Tele partscaster), DeArmond-branded ones from the late 1990s (in a MIK "Historic Series" cateye Gretsch; I believe the current Guild ones are based on these), Gabojo Mr 2000s (in P90 and in HB shape, in various homemade Teles).

The Gabojos are my favorites.

I also briefly had a TVJ Magnatron neck pickup, and I replaced the HS Filtertrons in my Cabronita with HiloTrons (which I like a lot better); and I also have a Gemini Dynacaster, which is kinda like a Dynasonic in a Tele bridge pickup shape.

 

[Andy B]

Check out DiMarzio Bluesbuckers. Humbucker that sounds like a P90. Dead quiet also.