Help me identify an oddball 80's Tremolo

[SheldonP]

Like the title says, I'm trying to figure out who manufactured this floating trem. It's from a Roger Gresco (R.A. Gresco) custom super strat build circa 1985-1989. It's kind of a brilliantly simple design with 2 knife edges that pivot in slots on a brass block. There are no numbers or writing anywhere on it. The guitar has a Wilkinson roller nut and Gotoh tuners. I know Gotoh has manufactured product for Wilkinson, so I thought that maybe all of the hardware came from the same supplier. It does have an 80's Wilkinson "look", but I can't seem to find anything from either company that even remotely resembles this thing design-wise.

 

[backporchmusic]

Looks like a Steinberger style?

 

[erratick]

Hmm. Not sure.

It's more Kahler style. Rockinger?

Definitely not Floyd Rose. Probably not Gotoh or Wilkinsen.

 

[erratick]

Can anyone identify this tremolo?

Any info that I can glean from y'all about the origins of this tremolo would be greatly appreciated. It's from a mid 80's Roger Gresco custom built guitar. I know it's original to the guitar as I have seen pics of other Gresco builds with this same unit, I just can't seem to get any info as to wh...

forums.musicplayer.com

ah... well.
Somebody in that thread says Rockinger. Somebody else says Wilkinson.

 

[SheldonP]

Can anyone identify this tremolo?

Any info that I can glean from y'all about the origins of this tremolo would be greatly appreciated. It's from a mid 80's Roger Gresco custom built guitar. I know it's original to the guitar as I have seen pics of other Gresco builds with this same unit, I just can't seem to get any info as to wh...

forums.musicplayer.com

ah... well.
Somebody in that thread says Rockinger. Somebody else says Wilkinson.

Yeah, I started that thread. I've owned the guitar for almost 20 years. I looked at everything I could find on Rockinger, Kahler, Wilkinson and Gotoh and never found anything that was the same visually, let alone the same design principle.

 

[erratick]

I agree with the guys that say Kahler knock off. It's pretty close. But who did it? Not sure.

 

[SheldonP]

I agree with the guys that say Kahler knock off. It's pretty close. But who did it? Not sure.

Considering the claw for the springs was stamped Kahler, I was initially inclined to think so as well. The thing is, I've never seen a knife edge Kahler (or any other knife edge trem for that matter) that uses flat protrusions on the plate and a grooved pivot block. Every one I've seen used knife edged semi-circle cutouts that pivot on posts.

If I didn't really like how well it works I wouldn't care. If I could find another I'd snap it up in a hot minute for a build.

 

[Peegoo]

@SheldonP

It's not a Rockinger, Gotoh, Schaller, Schecter, Mighty Mite, Wilkinson, Kahler, Mann, or APM.

Looks like a down-market knockoff of a Washburn Wonderbar.

 

[SheldonP]

@SheldonP

It's not a Rockinger, Gotoh, Schaller, Schecter, Mighty Mite, Wilkinson, Kahler, Mann, or APM.

Looks like a down-market knockoff of a Washburn Wonderbar.

I’ve looked at everything I could find over the last 20 years, high end, low end, and everything in between. The guitar it came off of was a handmade Roger Gresco custom. Beautiful figured one piece Koa body, massively birdseyed maple neck, DiMarzio pickups, Gotoh tuners, machined custom knobs, Wilkinson roller nut… considering the rest of the build I kinda doubt he’d cheap out on such an important part of the guitar, but I guess you never know.

 

[Peegoo]

I’ve looked at everything I could find over the last 20 years, high end, low end, and everything in between. The guitar it came off of was a handmade Roger Gresco custom. Beautiful figured one piece Koa body, massively birdseyed maple neck, DiMarzio pickups, Gotoh tuners, machined custom knobs, Wilkinson roller nut… considering the rest of the build I kinda doubt he’d cheap out on such an important part of the guitar, but I guess you never know.

Drop a post on the RA Gresco FB page with a pic and ask the question there:

RA Gresco Guitars

RA Gresco Guitars. 92 likes. Community

www.facebook.com

 

[erratick]

Considering the claw for the springs was stamped Kahler, I was initially inclined to think so as well. The thing is, I've never seen a knife edge Kahler (or any other knife edge trem for that matter) that uses flat protrusions on the plate and a grooved pivot block. Every one I've seen used knife edged semi-circle cutouts that pivot on posts.

If I didn't really like how well it works I wouldn't care. If I could find another I'd snap it up in a hot minute for a build.

Kahler 7300 and probably some others are knife edge. Model 2500 is pretty close. Not semi-circle as far as I remember.

Still haven't seen exact.

 

[SheldonP]

Kahler 7300 and probably some others are knife edge. Model 2500 is pretty close. Not semi-circle as far as I remember.

Still haven't seen exact.

7300 looks similar, but is cam operated, not knife edge. 2500 is knife edge, but semi-circles with posts.

 

[erratick]

7300 looks similar, but is cam operated, not knife edge. 2500 is knife edge, but semi-circles with posts.

Yeah the screws and general hardware of the 7300, plus your claw makes me think Kahler is involved. But Kahler didn't do much knife edge. maybe there is a 7000 series that is not cam.

However there are a couple 2500 models. There maybe one with not semi-circles. It's just not well documented. But it doesn't quite look right.

It's kind of frustrating looking for 80s documentation. Hope you find your answer.

Somebody out there knows. But it's not me. I'm not even that into floating whammy bars, I just happen to know some of the Fender/Floyd/Ibanez 80s oddities. Some experience with Kahler, Gotoh and Wilkinsen, but all of it more recent.

Do you have a firm date on the guitar? Perhaps via pots if you don't. Might help somebody.

Is there nothing printed on the side of the block? Takeuchi and other contract manufacturers usually put a mark there.

 

[SheldonP]

@erratick Not a single marking anywhere. The guitar was a completely disassembled basket case when I bought it. All of the original pots, switches and the Tone Qube circuit were long gone. I do know the run of these particular guitars was approximately 1985-1989. I've seen photos of two with this trem. Both were supposedly from 1986. The later models I've seen pictures of are Floyd Rose equipped or hardtails.

I discovered a recent 15 second YouTube video of a guy trying to I.D. an identical one, but he's missing the pivot block. I've reached out, but haven't heard back yet. In reaching out on other forums yesterday, I've had two different people tell me that Fender had a similarly designed trem that was Kahler branded on one of their Japanese Contemporary Strat models for a short time in the mid to late 80's. Still haven't been able to find any documentation on that one, either.

@Peegoo, I posted on the RA Gresco Facebook page several years ago. It's actually run by Roger Gresco's nephew. He remembered the trem, but not the manufacturer.

The most frustrating part is after trying this search several times in the last couple of decades, a good portion of what I find on the internet at this point are threads I've started on various forums over the years looking for info. I pretty much always get the same guesses/answers. I just keep hoping that I'll eventually find someone who knows what the danged thing is. Regardless of what I do or don't find, thanks to you guys for the suggestions and help.

 

[Peegoo]

@SheldonP

Whatever it is, it looks extremely well made. The fit of the parts is very good.

It may be a Gresco proprietary part, made to order by Schaller, APM, etc. When ordering custom parts, it's not uncommon to request "no maker's marks."

 

[DEspey61]

The Tremelo in question is a Wilkinson VS90. I know this as I used to be a Sales Rep in the late 80's for both Roger Gresco and Trev Wilkinson. Best locking trem I've ever used. Never thin sounding with good bottom end.

The Best feature is how the strings lock-off at the bottom of the tremelo block. This adds great sustain and tuning stability to each note. The strings pass through the tuner posts (Safety posts won't work) with the Ball-End of the string on the other side of the post. I still own 1 of 2 prototypes (See Attached Pictures)that were used to design the Ibanez American Master series that Roger produced for Hoshino. Bottom line, if you find one of these bridges or guitars, buy it.