Silly question I’m embarrassed to ask - quest for crunch and pure overdrive

[marc2211]

Ok, I now feel super dumb. I guess I've been doing the amp equivalent of buying a BMW M5 then only using it in the first 2 gears for fear of breaking the engine, especially with the Jubilee ><

Thank you all so much for the info and eductation, as well as the tips posted... I suspect that I need to start dreaming some excuses up for the neighbours in the near future!!

Can't wait to try this new approach out when I practice later.

 

[CCK1]

Gotta' get into those power tubes. If you do that with a 50-100 watt head, you're going to have a ringing in the ears sooner rather than later.
I have several amps, but there's only 3 that go to gigs, a 5 watt 1965 Champ, a 15 watt Tiny Terror, or a 22 watt Super-Sonic.

 

[Refugee]

The higher you crank the volume on a tube amp, the lower you turn the bass knob. Or it just sucks.

I don’t build or work on amps, but nearly four decades of using them has taught me that the louder you go, the more bass the circuit inherently introduces. So you turn it down.

Way back in the day, and I mean way back, the bass knob on my ‘76 JMP head plugged into a 4x12 was always near zero.

Mid was way up. Treble was way down, presence was used as the treble control. It screamed in a very glorious way.

We aren’t allowed to do that in clubs anymore.

And for anyone who really knows old Marshalls, this might seem weird. Because at a certain point on the volume knob, the mid control seemingly does nothing. At all. It’s just a volume knob. Another one. But at those volumes, that’s where those amps live.

Oh, I left that part out. Yeah, bass knob on zero. I said 4 tops, but that's just because most players just can't wrap their heads around zero on bass knob. I do that all the time. Not just when cranking it up.

If you think Marshalls are bad like that. Ever tried an older Laney AOR 100W'er? I don't even think the tone stack is wired up. It does almost nothing at all.

 

[Wally]

Ok, I now feel super dumb. I guess I've been doing the amp equivalent of buying a BMW M5 then only using it in the first 2 gears for fear of breaking the engine,

No, that would be hard on that BMW’s engine If you wanted to drive the speed in it on the highway. What you have been doing is Getting in an M5 and going 48 mph in top gear.…shifting at 1500RPM or less for every gear to get to the top gear.

 

[TheCheapGuitarist]

JJN's tone (and playing, obviously) is freakin' glorious.

 

[TeleToner1]

Preamp section
Poweramp section

Preamps today are typically meant for tone shaping and gain, along with channel volume, fed into the PI
Poweramp sections are the final output, the power tubes (to the OT)

Channel volume(s) in the preamp(s) are just pots offering varying resistance. Full open is just that, less of an impeded guitar signal. Gain is a slightly different animal in the preamp stage, but it's a spice best left to taste.

Poweramp saturation is a rarity in today's times. Especially if you're using a 100W head. Back in the old days when PAs weren't as robust or technically advanced, cranked on-stage amps were the preferred method of delivery, and ya, they sounded gorgeous. BUT, as now commonly known thanks to the interwebz, many of the greatest recordings to album by our favourite guitarists were done employing the use of extremely modest, small amps - mic'd and cranked - to get that similar poweramp saturation and feel.

In short - today's amps won't blow up with even all dials set on 10. The tubes will wear faster, true, but they won't blow up. What blows powertubes is improper biasing, or tube-faults (read: "arcs"). Reverse engineer this answer, you could play your amp on just above bedroom level and blow your tubes if they were biased too hot. Some players like to bias their tubes slightly hotter to get that saturation happening sooner, at the expense of knowing their tubes will need replacement sooner than later. Under-gunned biasing leads to crap tone, kinda "square-wave" feeling and sounding. Not usually pleasant. But to save the poweramp section and get that saturation level feel, this is where preamp gain comes in, and it's perfectly fine where it belongs in the circuit and what it does for the tone. Many amps have a dynamic interplay between preamp-volume vs poweramp-master-volume. Touch sensitivity and dynamics are all in this interplay. As is a tonal shift.

Bottom line, you're fine to "crank your volumes", that's what amps are for. Tubes are expendable, fact. So just make sure the pV are solid (proper bias range) and enjoy playing the heck outta yer amp.

 

[dan40]

I will just add that if the manufacturer was concerned about users damaging the amp by turning it up, they would limit how far you can turn up the volume. Nothing ruins a brand's reputation quicker than people blowing up their amps simply by cranking them up.

 

[fenderchamp]

he's not really even pusw

So, I’ve had tube amps for years and years, my first being a Laney back in about 1992, the first time I could afford one.

I have always treated them with kid gloves, even my ‘big’ amps. I currently have one of the new model Marshall Jubilee heads and cab, and a Blackstar HT20r mkii… both of which I love.

I can get really nice tones out of them by mildly raising the channel volume, tempering it with the master. I’ve relied on the gain pot
for overdrive, or a pedal as I want to keep things at apartment level.

I recently heard Jared James Nichol, who has the same HT20r mkii as his signature…. It sounds utterly glorious!!! Like crazy good. So I looked into his settings for his main overdrive tone… sweet Mary and Joseph… I’d be terrified to run them for fear of blowing something up!!

I’m not averse to paying out for new tubes from time to time, I’ve changed many a speaker, but I’m terrified of causing lasting damage to a tube amp by running it crazy hot… for example…

I’ll maybe have the channel volume on 4 or 5, but the master volume on 3 or 4. I’ll then add a boost or gain pedal to get some grit.

This is what JJN runs on the same amp:

Effectively the OD channel, volume 10, gain 10, master volume 2-3…

He then adds a tubescreamer!!

View attachment 1184094

My question is, If I try this am I going to do any lasting damage? Is the amp designed to run like this?

Call me a wuss, but genuinely I don’t want to break anything… am I being overly cautious?

Like you, he's not even really pushing that amp. The Master is where you actually crank up the amplifier, that is the actual volume knob, that's where you get the real push.

You can probably thank his sound engineer for his glorious tone.

The volume and gain are essentially both gain knobs. I doubt that his settings are much louder than yours, they are probably dirtier.

Tube guitar amplifiers are made to be pushed, that's how they sound good, that's why we pay so durned much for them.

They should be cranked up and they should get hot, then they give up the goods. That's why we try to like small amps that we can crank up.

 

[marc2211]

Well, thanks to everyone’s help, I had a bit of a tone epiphany this weekend. The Blackstar amp sounded glorious cranked! Really discovered how to actually use a tube amp to get the best out of it - the doors of perception are will and truly opened!!

Can’t wait to try with the Jubilee!

Thanks everyone!

 

[TeleToner1]

Well, thanks to everyone’s help, I had a bit of a tone epiphany this weekend. The Blackstar amp sounded glorious cranked! Really discovered how to actually use a tube amp to get the best out of it - the doors of perception are will and truly opened!!

Can’t wait to try with the Jubilee!

Thanks everyone!

It may not be everyday that you enjoy your Blackstar amped cranked,
But when you do, so do your neighbours

 

[Lies&Distortion]

Your ears are at more risk than the tubes

 

[Caffiend]

Amps always sound their best just before they blow up .

So crank that thing!

This is truth. My little brother had a SF Twin with celestions and a full set of knackered valves. It was glorious. It was never as good after the valves were replaced.

 

[fretknot]

Crank it up to 11 and don't look back! Seriously, with most valve amps I like to push a bit to the edge of breakup and beyond, often that's with the gain at around three o'clock on the dial. That said, they're all a little different, so messing around with the controls until you dial in your sweet spot is the only suggestion.

 

[JPKmusicman]

There's a 10 on the knobs for a reason.