Does a Squier CV 50s strat really sound like a 50s strat?

[bluesholyman]

I picked up a used squier CV 50s stratocaster (told it was stock) and I am having a hard time bonding with its sound. Plays well enough, but it is really glassy and has this harsh upper-mids spike to the sound that I don't recall on other strats. To be fair, the most recent strat I had before this had Fender Pure Vintage 50-somethings in it - great pickups, alder body, very nice strat - just wasn't using it enough to justify keeping it for what I could sell it for and get a cheaper strat.

So I have read many reviews that say this sounds pretty close to a vintage strat, but its one of the brightest/harshest I have heard. Maybe my high-end hearing loss is in retrograde.

Just wondering others experience. I don't want to put a lot of money in it for the use it will get, so I was figuring I'd change out the pickups for Fender Deluxe Drive or maybe some Toneriders - whatever is easier to get and fairly inexpensive - $100 or less, but sounds good.

Appreciate thoughts, input, free American Strats you don't want, etc.

Thanks,
BHM

 

[archetype]

A few things:

1. IMO there is no 50s Strat sound. They all varied.

2. Your CV and your previous Strat are different guitars with different characteristics, even though they are similar. They will sound different and that can't be attributed to a single factor, like pickups.

3. Have you spent 30-40 minutes with a screwdriver, dialing in the pickup heights? Strat pickups can be harsh (and other things) if they're too high. Start with the neck pickup flush with the pickguard and raise it until it sounds right. One end of the pickup may end up higher or lower than the other to get even string volume. Do the neck pickup next and raise until the volume matches the neck pickup. Then the bridge pickup.

4. After that, use the tone controls. They work to roll off the high edge. You might want to jumper the bridge pick up to the middle pickup's tone control if it's not already wired that way.

Don't throw money at it, yet.

 

[bluesholyman]

3. Have you spent 30-40 minutes with a screwdriver, dialing in the pickup heights? Strat pickups can be harsh (and other things) if they're too high. Start with the neck pickup flush with the pickguard and raise it until it sounds right. One end of the pickup may end up higher or lower than the other to get even string volume. Do the neck pickup next and raise until the volume matches the neck pickup. Then the bridge pickup.

Yeah, I dropped them to the deck and that certainly helped but man, still bright. Using D'addario pure nickel strings too.

Need to play with the tone controls some. On these CVs the middle tone manages the neck and middle while the bridge tone handles the bridge.

I think apart from my previous strat, THE reference "strat sound" in my head tends to be John Mayer.

 

[fender4life]

The trem will never allow it. I had the 60s and that was the strat i tried 4 tremolos/blocks on, even plugging the mounting holes and redriling to put a callaham USA spec i had on it. Of the 4 the tonal differences were huge. The stock trem sounds nothing like a USA spec trem due to the total junky saddles, tiny wedge zinc/pot metal block. redrill for a fender USA vintage and get the right pickups and you will get a lot closer. But you will still have a alder or pine body (depending on if yours is the indonesian or chinese model) and that will never sound the same as ash. So in short, no. But with the right trem and pickusp you will be in the ballpark. I wouldn't bother tho. Better off finding a ash body 50s RI with USA spacing on the trem mount of some sort.

 

[Boreas]

You may want to check the actual values of your pots with a meter. They could be out of tolerance. A 250k pot that is closer to 300k or more can be kinda bright.

But is any Strat built today going to sound like a Vintage 50s Strat? Not bloody likely. The "50s" designation relates more to appointments and style, not tone. They may emulate the old electronics and wiring, but it doesn't make it 70 years old.

 

[bluesholyman]

The trem will never allow it. I had the 60s and that was the strat i tried 4 tremolos/blocks on, even plugging the mounting holes and redriling to put a callaham USA spec i had on it. Of the 4 the tonal differences were huge. The stock trem sounds nothing like a USA spec trem due to the total junky saddles, tiny wedge zinc/pot metal block. redrill for a fender USA vintage and get the right pickups and you will get a lot closer. But you will still have a alder or pine body (depending on if yours is the indonesian or chinese model) and that will never sound the same as ash. So in short, no. But with the right trem and pickusp you will be in the ballpark. I wouldn't bother tho. Better off finding a ash body 50s RI with USA spacing on the trem mount of some sort.

I think this one landed in the wrong thread.

 

[fender4life]

I think this one landed in the wrong thread.

No, he was asking if a suier CV would sound like a 50s strat and i was explaining to him why it wouldn't

 

[bluesholyman]

No, he was asking if a suier CV would sound like a 50s strat and i was explaining to him why it wouldn't

Sorry, didn't get that - recalled some other thread about swapping out a tremolo and thought it was about that. Thanks.

 

[bluesholyman]

So in short, no. But with the right trem and pickusp you will be in the ballpark. I wouldn't bother tho. Better off finding a ash body 50s RI with USA spacing on the trem mount of some sort.

I asked originally because I have read several reviews that said this CV was closest to vintage sounding strat (50s in this case based on naming) that they had heard. I forget what the comparison set included, but it may have been more of a generalization, and one I recall reading about more than once.

I think if it would requried all that, just buy another guitar. Thats kinda the camp I'm in now, but I will probably change out the pickups to get rid of that harshness as much as possible, all things considered.

 

[fender4life]

I asked originally because I have read several reviews that said this CV was closest to vintage sounding strat (50s in this case based on naming) that they had heard. I forget what the comparison set included, but it may have been more of a generalization, and one I recall reading about more than once.

I think if it would requried all that, just buy another guitar. Thats kinda the camp I'm in now, but I will probably change out the pickups to get rid of that harshness as much as possible, all things considered.

Not sure how close the pickups are to a real 50s, bt they're a whole heck of a lot better then the trem. Putting a USA full sized steel block trem will completely change it, and f course in the direction of a 50s. Pickups won't change the basic character of the guitar like the trem will. The problem with that on CVs is the mounting pattern is the narrower import spacing so your trem choices are far fewer and u may have to buy a callaham or other high $ trem from guys like him who have models for the narrow spaced CV and the like.

 

[scotabilly]

You could try a Mexican Standard full size block. Same string spacing, and they sell them on eBay for about $25. I tried it on my 50's CV and it definitely fattened up the sound.

 

[Peegoo]

@bluesholyman

Which specific 1950s Strat are you referencing?

That's the issue in a nutshell. It's the same way with modern guitars: play three identical model guitars in a shop and each will have its own individual voice.

Next problem: which amplifier are you using as your benchmark? See above.

 

[beyer160]

I picked up a used squier CV 50s stratocaster (told it was stock) and I am having a hard time bonding with its sound. Plays well enough, but it is really glassy and has this harsh upper-mids spike to the sound that I don't recall on other strats. To be fair, the most recent strat I had before this had Fender Pure Vintage 50-somethings in it - great pickups, alder body, very nice strat - just wasn't using it enough to justify keeping it for what I could sell it for and get a cheaper strat.

So I have read many reviews that say this sounds pretty close to a vintage strat, but its one of the brightest/harshest I have heard. Maybe my high-end hearing loss is in retrograde.

Just wondering others experience. I don't want to put a lot of money in it for the use it will get, so I was figuring I'd change out the pickups for Fender Deluxe Drive or maybe some Toneriders - whatever is easier to get and fairly inexpensive - $100 or less, but sounds good.

Appreciate thoughts, input, free American Strats you don't want, etc.

Thanks,
BHM

Is this a newer one, or an older one?

Originally, the '50s CVs had alnico 3 pickups that were really bright, to the point of being harsh. The new ones use the exact same alnico 5 pickups in the '50s and '60s models. The Chinese ones will have the old pickups, I'm not sure if they changed the pickup spec when they moved production to Indonesia or some time afterward. You can check the label on the back of the pickup if you're curious- STA3 was the '60s A5 set (based on the Tonerider TRS3 "Classic Blues"), STA5 was the A3 set (based on the Tonerider TRS5 "Surfari"). If it says anything else, it'll be the newer A5 set.

 

[Les H]

My assumption about the CV series has always been it's probably more about recreating a feel of a 50s strat but not necessarily recreating the sound. But what do I know because I've never felt or played a 50s strat and I would assume neither has the mass majority of people buying a Squier....

I have 2 Squier strats, a 2002 Squier standard strat and a 2016 Squier Deluxe strat. As far as strats go I currently don't own a "Fender" strat at all. When it comes to Squiers the pickups are the first thing to go, however the stock neck pickup of the Standard has stayed because it is the best sounding strat neck pickup I have ever used. The second thing to go is the Squier pots but not until I start having issues with the stock pots.

My Squiers have been the most comfortable strats I have ever owned or played. In my opinion if the guitar feels good to play it's worth sinking a little extra money into. I haven't put down my 2016 Squier Deluxe Strat since I purchased it in 2016. It's been a great guitar and I haven't looked for anything else since. But if it doesn't feel good I wouldn't bother keeping it let alone sink any additional money into it.

 

[bluesholyman]

@bluesholyman

Which specific 1950s Strat are you referencing?

That's the issue in a nutshell. It's the same way with modern guitars: play three identical model guitars in a shop and each will have its own individual voice.

Next problem: which amplifier are you using as your benchmark? See above.

I was referring to the era of 50s strats, as opposed to 60s, generally speaking. A more vintage than modern sound? Maybe I don't know "exactly" what I as asking

Is this a newer one, or an older one?

Originally, the '50s CVs had alnico 3 pickups that were really bright, to the point of being harsh. The new ones use the exact same alnico 5 pickups in the '50s and '60s models. The Chinese ones will have the old pickups, I'm not sure if they changed the pickup spec when they moved production to Indonesia or some time afterward. You can check the label on the back of the pickup if you're curious- STA3 was the '60s A5 set (based on the Tonerider TRS3 "Classic Blues"), STA5 was the A3 set (based on the Tonerider TRS5 "Surfari"). If it says anything else, it'll be the newer A5 set.

I would describe the sound as bright/harsh, but I haven't pulled the pickguard to confirm. This is the Indonesian one, manufactured 11/2020.

I just peaked under the pickguard, trying not to completely disassemble the thing and the neck pickup has something like "ptp105xxxxxx" on it - nothing like what you mentioned above. So I assume its the newer A5 set?? No idea. They just don't sound good to me, regardless of what they are.

 

[Peegoo]

I was referring to the era of 50s strats, as opposed to 60s, generally speaking. A more vintage than modern sound? Maybe I don't know "exactly" what I as asking

Sorry if I was unclear; my point is there's no "1950s Strat sound."

Back then, Fender didn't wind pickups like they do today--which started sometime in the 1970s (based on a few Fender books I have). What Fender did in the 50s was spin up Strat pickups. They were all made the same way; there was no differentiator for a neck pickup, a middle pickup, and a bridge pickup. They were all virtually the same...three were grabbed from a bin and installed in the pickguard in no particular order.

Pickup specs (materials, etc.) have changed over the years, but realistically nobody's ears are so golden that they can easily differentiate between a pickup made in 1955 and one made in 2005 simply by listening. Even when the exact same parts/magnet alloy/etc., are used, there is still variation in the tone.

The same issue applies to the legendary Gibson PAF humbucker. I've played and heard 50's/60's PAFs and, in general, they are low powered and clearer/brighter than a typical humbucker today. But they were quite inconsistent when comparing the tone of one pickup to another. The specific guitars that have PAFs in them and sound really good are simply a happy conglobation of individual guitar parts and how the guitar happened to be assembled the day it was built.

All this is my opinion based on my experiences. I refuse to be 'convinced' by marketing; it is quite powerful and generates unfounded biases. I rely on my ears. There are people that will disagree with me and that is okay too.

 

[Swirling Snow]

The specific guitars that have PAFs in them and sound really good are simply a happy conglobation of individual guitar parts and how the guitar happened to be assembled the day it was built.

My experience agrees with your experience.

People don't want to admit it, though. They want a secret sauce. But the only "secret" is all the parts work together.

 

[bluesholyman]

People don't want to admit it, though. They want a secret sauce. But the only "secret" is all the parts work together.

Can't disagree. Not totally unrelated, I bought a Nobels ODR-1 Ltd Ed some time back and thought it sounded more lively than a standard ODR-1 - maybe they did something different inside and didn't own up to it - I liked it, felt and sounded like it had that special sauce.

A few months later, I landed a 2nd ODR-1 Ltd Ed. with a fairly low serial number (they only made 2000 of the ltd ed. and serialized each one inside the battery compartment.) It sounded different than the first one I got, kinda lifeless in comparison. The first one I got was just a happy mix of parts with the right tolerance drifts to do something special.

So yeah, I hear you about the guitar.

 

[mretrain99]

I have a Chinese made Squier CV ‘50s Strat I bought used, and the previous owner had replaced the trem block with a heavy brass one. I also replaced the pickups with a Tex-Mex set and did the Jimmie Vaughan wiring setup with a .022mfd cap, where you connect the bridge pickup to the tone control. Having the tone control on the bridge pickup helps a lot in making it more usable. I also deck the tremolo since I don’t use it, which probably helps a little too. It plays and sounds way better than the late-‘80s USA ‘62 reissue I used to have.

 

[Rokdogguy49]

Interesting reading.
I bought a new Squier CV 50 Strat this year. It’s a 2022 built in Indonesia and I love the pickups. I had to lower them from the original set up and they are dialed in pretty nice.