Need wiring help: Out of Phase + Series/Parallel with a toggle switch

[WilburBufferson]

I've attempted this already, but have encountered problems (see this link for details). I have a Duo Sonic with 2 single coils, 1V and 1T and a toggle switch. I would like to add 2 push pulls so that the Volume control switches between series and parallel, and the Tone control switches between in- and out-of-phase. Crucially, I don't want there to be any dead positions/spots, i.e., when either of the push-pulls are engaged you get one or both of these options no matter where the toggle is pointed. Currently (see link), I cannot achieve series+out-of-phase which was the whole reason for breaking out the soldering iron! Thanks for any help that can be provided.

PS: I've searched extensively for this, but can't find this exact configuration.

 

[AJBaker]

That's fairly easy, since those two switches are independent of each other.

I don't have a diagram, but here's the general idea:

For series/parallel, use this:

Adding Series Switching To Your Strat

To benefit from the series option, you need to use your Strat’s dual-pickup settings—bridge + middle or neck + middle.

www.premierguitar.com

For out of phase, just add the switch between the pickup and the series/parallel switch.

On the whole:

(Pickup 1) => (phase switch) => (series/parallel switch)

(Pickup 2) => (series/parallel switch)

After that, it's:
(series/parallel switch) => toggle => V/T controls => jack


Make sure to separately ground any metal parts on the pickup.

 

[WilburBufferson]

I found this, but for a blade switch. Can anyone help me modify it for a Gibson-style toggle?

 

[moosie]

Here ya go, Wilbur.

Note, the only way to do it with a Gibson 3-way is series override. When you engage series, the 3-way doesn't do anything.

 

[WilburBufferson]

Here ya go, Wilbur.

Note, the only way to do it with a Gibson 3-way is series override. When you engage series, the 3-way doesn't do anything.

View attachment 970447

Moosie, thank you!!!

Question about your drawing: I suppose it is best to put the phase switch be first, i.e., on the volume pot? Secondly, with the series override, will I still be able to get series+OOP (with both switches in the UP position)?

 

[moosie]

Yes to OOP in series. The "virtual" labels are a reminder that these are the effective hot and common leads from this pickup. The rest of the circuit neither knows or cares which way the OOP switch has flipped the leads.

Re the vol pot, if you mean which switch goes on which pot? It doesn't matter. Whichever feels more comfortable to you. Or if you wanted one on a pot, and the other as a mini toggle mounted on the plate... that works, too. Your choice.

 

[WilburBufferson]

Yes to OOP in series. The "virtual" labels are a reminder that these are the effective hot and common leads from this pickup. The rest of the circuit neither knows or cares which way the OOP switch has flipped the leads.

Re the vol pot, if you mean which switch goes on which pot? It doesn't matter. Whichever feels more comfortable to you. Or if you wanted one on a pot, and the other as a mini toggle mounted on the plate... that works, too. Your choice.

Moosie, you're the man! Do you have a tip jar (e.g., Patreon)? Thank you so much. Will report back with the results. I ordered a new tip for my soldering iron, bought some decent wire and solder. Until now, I have been using supplies from a local hardware store with mixed results.

 

[moosie]

You're welcome. Thanks, I appreciate the thought, but I just do this for fun.

I keep saying I'll throw all this stuff up on a simple blog site, but so far it hasn't happened. So I keep doing them one-off <beats head against wall>

Good deal on the solder and stuff. Tin that tip! Cheers.

 

[WilburBufferson]

Well, I did it. Thought everything was correct, but.... The switches work perfectly. My problem is that the volume control is functioning more like a tone control, and the tone control doesn't seem to work at all although, surprisingly, it does in some positions. I am using 500K pots (all I had) and a .033 cap (again, all I had on hand). Anything obvious come to mind as a boo-boo?

 

[dogmeat]

on that diagram it looks like the .05 cap connects to the V pot, and the Vpot ground goes to common ground without touching the tab. I had to look at it a bit but the 3rd tab on the V pot is ground too. usually it is bent back the the V pot case and soldered. no matter how you do it, that terminal should be grounded as well as that one side of the cap

 

[moosie]

If you mean my diagram, it is grounded. The reason I don't show, or advocate, bending pot lugs is that it's pretty much a one-way trip, and I often re-use pots in other situations where I don't want that hard-grounded.

Feel free if you want, but that's why I always show the jumper instead of bending it over.

Actually the way that one is drawn, even if you left the jumper off, it would just be noisy (ungrounded shield). A 'bad thing', but it would play fine. Why? Because when we say ground, we really mean 'connected to the collar of the output jack'... and then to the amp. The vol ground lug connects via the pot-to-pot jumper, and then out to the jack.


The only things that come to mind if yes, if you actually didn't ground the vol pot lug, at all, it might act similarly. Use a meter, and clip one probe to the jack collar, and use the other probe to touch all metal bits. Set to 'beep' mode, it should beep.

The other thing I was thinking is if you had wired it 50s style, with the tone circuit coming off the vol pot wiper, not input. And if you were rolling either pot way down. You can get weird interactivity. But my diagram isn't wired that way.

When in doubt, and after metering all grounds, reflow all connections. Cold joints can be hard to see, and can cause all manner of issues.

 

[WilburBufferson]

The other thing I was thinking is if you had wired it 50s style, with the tone circuit coming off the vol pot wiper, not input. And if you were rolling either pot way down. You can get weird interactivity. But my diagram isn't wired that way.

This is what is happening: "weird interactivity". Ugggg. Going to unstring and open 'er up again and see what I got wrong....

 

[moosie]

Did you wire tone to center vol lug instead?

 

[WilburBufferson]

No, it wasn't that. I found the problem! Thanks to both of you. As Dogmeat sussed out, I did not ground the top lug of the Volume pot. (Bending the lug back and soldering it to the casing was not an option because of the design of CTS switch/pot.) It was simply an oversight on my part. Thanks for sticking with me on this one -- works fantastically now.

BTW, I had to cut the circle part of the lugs off in order to get things to fit. The Duo Sonic has the V and T controls spaced quite closely, so this was tricky (for me).

The higher quality wire and solder made things a LOT easier to execute. The solder melted much more easily, it was a breeze to strip the insulation from the wire which was also less prone to melting under the heat of the iron. All around much better experience the second time around.

 

[dogmeat]

I mentioned "usually it is bent back to the V pot case and soldered." as a recognition thing since thats how we usually see it. (but not on push/pull pots so much)

yeah.... pretty busy looking in there. pretty tight space. looks good though

 

[moosie]

Yikes that's tight. Glad you got it working.

Get yourself a meter!

 

[WilburBufferson]

@moosie follow-up: will this wiring diagram work with (2 conductor wire) wide range humbuckers? the duo sonic is gone, but I kept the pots/switches. Wondering if I can pop this mess into my deluxe telecaster?

EDIT: I realize that it doesn't make sense to put two humbuckers in series, but I did like series+OOP because the series compensated for the loss in volume with the OOP sound alone.

 

[moosie]

Yep, it'll work.

 

[WilburBufferson]

Yep, it'll work.

Thank you!

 

[wabashslim]

Without reading the whole thread I'll just mention that I recently added a half-OOP push-pull volume pot switch to the neck pickup which then proceeds to the 4-way Tele series-parallel switch as before. Works like a champ...with the HOOP switch "on" the series position sounds about like a regular OOP, and the neck alone has a slight bottom cut which is more useful than I thought it would be.
Now, back to the zombie thread...