Tube and speaker suggestions for a Fender Champion 600 re-issue.

[JustABluesGuy]

I just bought a used, 2006 Champion 600 Reissue. It appears to be completely stock and barely even used. It’s in great shape, and even has the original Chinese tubes.

I’m looking for tube and speaker swap suggestions for it. I have a couple of 1960s Oxford alnico speakers, but they are more like 7 or 8” rather than the stock 6.5” speaker, and would probably require modifying the baffle. I would probably just make a new baffle with an oxblood grill cloth and put the original speaker and baffle away for safekeeping, but things tend to get lost around here, so…

IIRC I the Oxford is 8Ohms (I need to double check). I’m concerned about matching the impedance of the original. Since there IS a standard speaker jack, I’m likely to leave the original speaker and match it with a 4 Ohm cab, probably a 2x10 with ‘74 CTS Alnicos (pulled from a SR).

I would like to hear some more affordable options for replacement tubes. I only spent $65 on the amp itself, and don’t need NOS tubes. Modern production is fine.

If anyone has any tips or tricks for using this amp, I would love to hear them. I’m glad the amp seems unmolested, and I’m not too interested in any major, or irreversible mods. I am not qualified to drain caps, even with one hand behind my back.

I’m interested in any easy to do, and easily reversible mods that might make it a bit more tweedy, or less boxy.

I’m also interested in finding others who have, and use this amp. I would like to hear your experiences with it. What you like, or don’t like about it. How you use it, etc..

Thanks in advance!

 

[BackwaterJunction]

I can't speak for the tubes or mods, but I swapped a Jensen C6R into mine and I've been enjoying it vs the stock speaker

 

[havlma1]

Depends on what sound you expect. Overdriven or clean.. etc. For clean sound I liked the most the stock speaker and stock baffle (the thick one). I have tried Jensen P6V (too thin, brittle), Weber Signature 6, Jensen Mod 6 (sounded like the original speaker) and I have reverted back.

EDIT: regarding the tube - I had 3 Champs 600 RI in total and the last one came with Chinese generic tube. Bit brittle, not much low end. This tube sounded the best and when overdriven the sound was raspy, nice sounding. Just saying..

I liked the amp, it has a blackface sound which made me want more from Fender . It eventually made me buy 68 Custom Princeton and then 57 Champ RI (and Deluxe). Maybe Fender had this in mind, when released this 600 Champ Ri You will want more!

 

[VintageSG]

Try the stock speaker with the new grille cloth. From what I remember, the stock cloth is like a blanket.
For the 6V6, a JJ is safe. A NOS JAN VT-107a doesn't cost much more if you shop around.
A Soviet 6p6s is a low cost alternative. They're basically a clone of an American 6V6 from the late 40's/early 50's from a technology transfer agreement. I've used them for years. Fine sounding, but maybe not in any amp that exceeds data sheet values for the B+ You're safe with tha amp.
The grille cloth will make a difference. Try that first.
For the 12AX7, NOS prices are getting silly. Can you trust UOS? NOS Japanese valves are still priced sensibly, and sound just as good as the European stablemates whose tooling they were made on.
The JJ ECC803 is a long plate ECC83/12AX7 and adds a depth and richness the short plates lack. The JJ 5751 is ( opinion ) a really good V1 for Champ-a-likes. Their 12AY7 is a little 'meh' ( again, opinion )
The EHX/Sovtek 12AY7 is ( opinion ) as good as NOS in my little amps.
A swerve you may consider is the Soviet 6n2p-EV and an adaptor to the 12AX7 wiring ( it's just heaters ) They sound as good as any 12AX7 from any era, and are inexpensive and plentiful. The adaptors are readily available from ebay.

 

[JustABluesGuy]

I can't speak for the tubes or mods, but I swapped a Jensen C6R into mine and I've been enjoying it vs the stock speaker

Thanks for the feedback. What did the Jensen improve for you?

 

[JustABluesGuy]

Try the stock speaker with the new grille cloth. From what I remember, the stock cloth is like a blanket.
For the 6V6, a JJ is safe. A NOS JAN VT-107a doesn't cost much more if you shop around.
A Soviet 6p6s is a low cost alternative. They're basically a clone of an American 6V6 from the late 40's/early 50's from a technology transfer agreement. I've used them for years. Fine sounding, but maybe not in any amp that exceeds data sheet values for the B+ You're safe with tha amp.
The grille cloth will make a difference. Try that first.
For the 12AX7, NOS prices are getting silly. Can you trust UOS? NOS Japanese valves are still priced sensibly, and sound just as good as the European stablemates whose tooling they were made on.
The JJ ECC803 is a long plate ECC83/12AX7 and adds a depth and richness the short plates lack. The JJ 5751 is ( opinion ) a really good V1 for Champ-a-likes. Their 12AY7 is a little 'meh' ( again, opinion )
The EHX/Sovtek 12AY7 is ( opinion ) as good as NOS in my little amps.
A swerve you may consider is the Soviet 6n2p-EV and an adaptor to the 12AX7 wiring ( it's just heaters ) They sound as good as any 12AX7 from any era, and are inexpensive and plentiful. The adaptors are readily available from ebay.

Thanks! I’ll save this info. So far the stock tubes sound “ok” but I did hear some weirdness when I got it home, but I think it might be a used pedal introducing it.

Trying it with no pedals, in a
different room I didn’t notice it, so it might not be the toobs? They are dated 2006 so they aren’t new.

Again thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[fretknot]

I've owned and modded at least 3 of these, maybe 4. I've found the stock speaker to be missing something. The best speaker I used in one was an eBay score of an old Motorola "Golden Voice" speaker. For new speakers a lower end Weber is a big improvement over the stock speaker, which more resembles a car stereo speaker than a musical instrument speaker. I'm not a fan of the foam surround. Replacing the grill cloth is must.

For tubes, I used old RCA 6V6GTY (military spec) It's a rugged tube and I've never come across a bad one, regardless of age. They can be had for a reasonable cost and are easily sourced on eBay. Otherwise, a new JJ or Tung-Sol will do the trick.

This is one amp that sounded good with a 12AT7 in the preamp slot. A 12AT7 has a gain factor of 60, vs 100 for the 12AX7. It is usually a driver, but sounded better to me than a 12AX7 in this circuit. Another option would be a 5751, with a gain factor of 70. Again, for new tubes, JJ or Tung-Sol.

There are several inexpensive circuit mods that can really take this amp to another level, if you're inclined to do some careful soldering/de-soldering. The stock voicing on the amp is pretty good, so mods are not necessary, but there are some interesting options, including a 5F1 mod.

 

[Powdog]

Go ahead and make a new 1/4” baffle and stick an 8” speaker inside. A Weber Sig8 fits fine. Single biggest improvement you can easily do.

 

[bottlenecker]

I don't think the late model C 600 lookalike can sound tweed with it's diode rectifier. Could be wrong. Mine came with the grill cloth changed and the little jensen alnico 6", and some different tubes. I didn't try it before, so I can't compare, but I think it makes a nice head. The little speaker is cool for some stuff, like lap steel, or having a light load to pack, but it sounds best with a 2x10 cab.

 

[2L man]

Jensen P6V sound sweet. In small open back cabin sound comes "smaller" because rear reflected sound vaves cancel front coming sound waves but Alnico sound great and interesting

There are few Youtube samples which has this combination.

 

[BackwaterJunction]

Thanks for the feedback. What did the Jensen improve for you?

It seemed just more "open" sounding than stock. Clearer highs, tighter lows.

Interesting to see others recommending changing the grill cloth - I'd never considered that!

I really love the amp for cleans, though it does seem to have a bit of a hum. I tend to use humbuckers or in-between single coil positions to try and counter it a bit - Strat position 4 sounds as lovely as you'd expect!

 

[JustABluesGuy]

Thanks for the feedback!

I've owned and modded at least 3 of these, maybe 4.

Do you still have them all, and did you do the same mods to them all?

I've found the stock speaker to be missing something. The best speaker I used in one was an eBay score of an old Motorola "Golden Voice" speaker.

Was that Moto alnico or ceramic?

For new speakers a lower end Weber is a big improvement over the stock speaker, which more resembles a car stereo speaker than a musical instrument speaker. I'm not a fan of the foam surround. Replacing the grill cloth is must.

I’m quite surprised to hear they have a foam surround. Have you noticed if the originals added more speaker breakup that replacements. With the foam I would think so.

For tubes, I used old RCA 6V6GTY (military spec) It's a rugged tube and I've never come across a bad one, regardless of age. They can be had for a reasonable cost and are easily sourced on eBay. Otherwise, a new JJ or Tung-Sol will do the trick.

This is one amp that sounded good with a 12AT7 in the preamp slot. A 12AT7 has a gain factor of 60, vs 100 for the 12AX7. It is usually a driver, but sounded better to me than a 12AX7 in this circuit. Another option would be a 5751, with a gain factor of 70. Again, for new tubes, JJ or Tung-Sol.

There are several inexpensive circuit mods that can really take this amp to another level, if you're inclined to do some careful soldering/de-soldering. The stock voicing on the amp is pretty good, so mods are not necessary, but there are some interesting options, including a 5F1 mod.

I rarely do mods, and when I do, I need a specific goal in mind. I’m pretty happy with it as is so far. The only mods I am likely to do any time soon are fresh tubes and maybe a speaker upgrade since I have some vintage Oxford Alnico speakers that I might be able to cram in there, though I am likely to just pull the old baffle along with the speaker, and put them away for safekeeping and create a new baffle for Oxford.

I have plenty of speaker cabs, so replacing the stock speaker isn’t a priority yet.

 

[JustABluesGuy]

Jensen P6V sound sweet. In small open back cabin sound comes "smaller" because rear reflected sound vaves cancel front coming sound waves but Alnico sound great and interesting

There are few Youtube samples which has this combination.

Thanks! I will look for some of those videos. I want to try one of my vintage alnicos in it, but they’re just a bit bigger than the original. I hooked one up to it, and it made it quieter, but it didn’t sound that great just laying there without a cab.

 

[JustABluesGuy]

It seemed just more "open" sounding than stock. Clearer highs, tighter lows.

Thanks for the feedback!

Interesting to see others recommending changing the grill cloth - I'd never considered that!

That seems to be a pretty common modification. The complaint is that it’s too thick and muffles the amp.

If I were to change it, I would switch to an oxblood to match the Fender badge.

If I do change the internal speaker, I will very likely make a completely new baffle with the vintage alnico, and new grill cloth, since the alnico I have is closer to 7 inches.

 

[danielpsmart]

Like others have suggested... change the grill cloth.

Trying different tubes you or buddies have laying around would be a option. A local amp repair person might have a stash of tubes too. One 12AX7 and one 6V6 should be easy to find.

I've had a Champion 600 for years now and have mod'd it but still have the stock speaker installed. The first things I tried were reducing the NFB and removing the tone stack; both were easy but sound like more than you want to do. I then went all out and gutted the chassis and turned it into a PTP tweed champ ala 5F1 with a SS rectifier.

 

[BackwaterJunction]

Thanks for the feedback!



That seems to be a pretty common modification. The complaint is that it’s too thick and muffles the amp.

If I were to change it, I would switch to an oxblood to match the Fender badge.

If I do change the internal speaker, I will very likely make a completely new baffle with the vintage alnico, and new grill cloth, since the alnico I have is closer to 7 inches.

Looks like I've gained an idea from this thread!

Seems others have great speaker ideas, which I may even look into myself for some comparisons! But just for reference, the C6V dropped straight in, no new baffle required!

 

[fretknot]

Thanks for the feedback!



Do you still have them all, and did you do the same mods to them all?

I have kept none of them. The circuit mods were identical on two of them, two got the 5F1 mod, one of which and was installed in a vintage Ampro 1X12 cabinet, loaded with the original Jensen P12Q. The other one got an 8-inch speaker. The remaining two had minor circuit mods to bypass the tone stack and add more filtering, plus upgraded 6-inch speakers. They all were re-tubed with NOS tubes and more acoustically transparent grill cloth. I had been building and modding amps for a number of years as a side business. I've since retired.

Was that Moto alnico or ceramic?



I’m quite surprised to hear they have a foam surround. Have you noticed if the originals added more speaker breakup that replacements. With the foam I would think so.



I rarely do mods, and when I do, I need a specific goal in mind. I’m pretty happy with it as is so far. The only mods I am likely to do any time soon are fresh tubes and maybe a speaker upgrade since I have some vintage Oxford Alnico speakers that I might be able to cram in there, though I am likely to just pull the old baffle along with the speaker, and put them away for safekeeping and create a new baffle for Oxford.

I have plenty of speaker cabs, so replacing the stock speaker isn’t a priority yet.

 

[fretknot]

The Motorola speaker was alnico.

 

[printer2]

No 600 for me, but I built a cab the same size and put an 8" in it. Grill cloth is an open weave place mat from a Dollar Store.

 

[LostGonzo85]

I had one for a bit. A good 6v6 (Tung-Sol/EH or a NOS) and a decent speaker will make a big difference. I wouldn't bother with circuit mods, and I wouldn't spend a ton of money - it's always going to sound small and boxy. I had the Weber Sig 6 in mine, but if I were doing it again I might be tempted to try the Eminence 620H.