Spark Mini Disappointment

[dinomike77]

After taking care of all my family duties for Christmas, I bought a Spark Mini for myself. The amp wasn’t even on my radar till I got a targeted IG ad last week. I went down the rabbit hole and bought one at GC yesterday so I could have it now, even though it was $45 more out the door than ordering direct from the Positive Grid website.

Very nice look and feel. The app works well and I was able to ditch the presets (too much delay!) and dial in some bold clean tones that I enjoy. Unfortunately, these little speakers cannot keep up with the available volume of the amp. They buzz and clip on anything even approaching halfway on the volume knob. This is with my Tele with AV 64 pups, not hot by any means. With my Epi SG, forget it.

Funny thing is that it does not exhibit this problem when used as a Bluetooth speaker and does put out an impressive low end. The sound holds together perfectly until the last 5% or so on the knob, at which point it oddly becomes all mids.

I have about 9 days before I head back to the big city and can return it. I’ve only fooled around with it for a couple hours, updated the firmware and set it aside to get a full charge to see if that sorts anything out.

Some of the reviews I read and watched did mention the clipping/farting speakers at max volume, but I’m getting the issue at volumes that seem to be a dealbreaker. I just know I’ll be disappointed with it over the long term if I have to neuter my tone settings or lighten my attack.

It seems that the delays and reverbs in the presets soften the sound/attack so the buzzing isn’t as noticeable. When I pulled those things back, the buzz just jumped out.

Anyone else have this experience? Any chance I got a bum unit? Do you think they’ll loosen up/break in after a bit?

I do think it’s working properly; I just think the speakers suck. I’m sure that an upgrade to these speakers will be the headline when the inevitable MKII comes around. I don’t want to feel like a sucker for keeping this, but I can’t believe there aren’t more complaints about these weak sauce speakers.

Any and all opinions welcome!

 

[uriah1]

I was off. Thought this mini.

 

[RomanS]

Just to make sure it's really the speakers that are at fault - have you tried replicating the problem through headphones?

 

[blowtorch]

I've got the OG full size Positive Grid Spark and I love it, had considered getting the mini-

well I'm glad I didn't get one, then.

 

[dinomike77]

Thank you for the replies. Yes, I did try it through the headphones. It sounded quite different. Much darker. But it did not have the crispy, buzzy clipping of the speakers, even when maxed on the volume.

 

[BobbyB]

I have the full size Spark and have no problems. Perhaps you got a bad unit or its inherent in the mini.
The full size is a fun practice amp, but I do use my 6v6 champ and multi-effects more.

 

[stormsedge]

I shipped my “Christmas” Spark 40 back this afternoon. Not for me .

 

[bowman]

How loud are you playing that thing? I have the Spark 40 and the Mini, and I don’t have an issue like yours at reasonably loud volume. They get plenty loud without any weirdness. I’ve never turned either one all the way up, but that’s not what they’re for - if I want to hear a big amp, I’ll just play a big amp.

 

[bactrian666]

I've had my Mini about 3-4 months, used as a practice (noodling) amp sitting on the couch watching TV and never crank it past maybe 4-5 on the volume. No breakup issues, but like others have said I don't think it's designed to clear people out of the room. I'm happy with it for what is does for me.

 

[Gimble]

I got mine for Xmas, still loving it, no clipping issues here.

 

[dinomike77]

Thank you for your comments. At lower than half on the dial, it does sound very nice.

I guess expecting that the product as designed would allow for the speakers to hold together throughout the available range on the volume knob was my mistake. If it’s only supposed to be usable to halfway, why not make that the max?

Sure, I could play a bigger amp when I want to be loud, but I was looking for something portable. The battery power, app features and jam along features were the selling point for me.

And it IS capable of being quite loud and full as a Bluetooth speaker *without* that speaker breakup almost all the way up the knob. I don’t understand why it shouldn’t do the same when used as a guitar amp.

I guess it’s just not for me. Typical internet induced GAS on my part.

I do really like the promise and the features, but I guess I’ll just wait for a later version when they tell us all that they’ve “upgraded the speakers for better performance.”

 

[dinomike77]

Okay. I’ve given the amp more time after hours and it’s very nice at lower volumes, when the house is asleep. The log plate reverb sounds like some kinda Bose speaker, like it’s coming from other walls in the room!

I do notice a hiss on the attack of notes that quickly dissipates. This is with the gate turned OFF.

I notice this same type of hiss on my Mustang Micro, but on that “amp” it stays with the note until I mute the string.

I assume this is some digital processing to manage peaks. It could be that my loud, dry and mid-forward settings were accentuating this hiss and making it sound like speaker distortion or actually causing the speakers to distort in a range they weren’t designed for.

Does anyone else hear that hiss on clean, dry tones immediately surrounding a strong attack? Is there a way to dial it out or is it just the nature of the beast?

I am leaning toward keeping the amp with two more days before I head to town to possibly return it.

 

[RomanS]

Okay. I’ve given the amp more time after hours and it’s very nice at lower volumes, when the house is asleep. The log plate reverb sounds like some kinda Bose speaker, like it’s coming from other walls in the room!

I do notice a hiss on the attack of notes that quickly dissipates. This is with the gate turned OFF.

I notice this same type of hiss on my Mustang Micro, but on that “amp” it stays with the note until I mute the string.

I assume this is some digital processing to manage peaks. It could be that my loud, dry and mid-forward settings were accentuating this hiss and making it sound like speaker distortion or actually causing the speakers to distort in a range they weren’t designed for.

Does anyone else hear that hiss on clean, dry tones immediately surrounding a strong attack? Is there a way to dial it out or is it just the nature of the beast?

I am leaning toward keeping the amp with two more days before I head to town to possibly return it.

Is it maybe a simulation of overdrive, since you notice it when using a hard attack?
Maybe try a lower gain setting (or a limiter model before the amp model) to see if it disappears?

 

[telemnemonics]

Curious how the pickups are adjusted in your guitars?
If they are visually level, the guitar signal will be more bass heavy than many non bass amps can handle, where say a tube amp will tend to crunch and saturate bass before the speakers are over loaded. Not sure if the spark tries to be a full range speaker for bluetooth and needs a guitar signal to be more balanced and less bass heavy.

Otherwise as far as disappointment with mini amps, I just returned a Quilter Superblock due to total lack of awesomeness.

 

[RomanS]

Curious how the pickups are adjusted in your guitars?
If they are visually level, the guitar signal will be more bass heavy than many non bass amps can handle, where say a tube amp will tend to crunch and saturate bass before the speakers are over loaded. Not sure if the spark tries to be a full range speaker for bluetooth and needs a guitar signal to be more balanced and less bass heavy.

Otherwise as far as disappointment with mini amps, I just returned a Quilter Superblock due to total lack of awesomeness.

This is veering a bit off topic - but I was thinking about selling my Superblock US, since I always found it kinda honky sounding, with an upper mids peak that was hard to dial out.
But I just got a new speaker for that cab I was playing it with - and now it sounds really great, so I'm keeping it.
Maybe try a different speaker cab first?

For reference - I'm only using clean tones (country, rockabilly, swing jazz), the old speaker was an Eminence Red, White & Blues, the new one is a Celestion Neo Copperback (their take on an EVM12L).

 

[telemnemonics]

This is veering a bit off topic - but I was thinking about selling my Superblock US, since I always found it kinda honky sounding, with an upper mids peak that was hard to dial out.
But I just got a new speaker for that cab I was playing it with - and now it sounds really great, so I'm keeping it.
Maybe try a different speaker cab first?

For reference - I'm only using clean tones (country, rockabilly, swing jazz), the old speaker was an Eminence Red, White & Blues, the new one is a Celestion Neo Copperback (their take on an EVM12L).

I did try it with several speakers and also found the limiter helped with what you may be describing upper mids peak which I described as a shrill spike, I thought it was more in transients than overall EQ, but similar to what you describe.
Turing up the limiter reduced the peaks (up on the knob means down to the output) so the transients had less of the shrill spike.
Compared to a tube amp which has smoother more natural transients.
That was my take after days of tryng to like it.
Also the wattage was low with level full up and only increased notably in the last 1/4 turn of the gain knob, so clean volume was almost like a 5w champ or 12w Deluxe, not 25w of clean volume.
This was the UK version which may have more assumption we dont need no steeenkin clean sounds?

Thanks for the suggestion, already got my refund...

 

[dinomike77]

I don’t think it’s a simulation of overdrive. I think it’s an artifact of some intentional feature of the amp to prevent hitting the speakers hard. There is a gate that you can implement at the front of the chain and I turned that off immediately.

My pickups are lower in the bass side and sound balanced through my other amps (Gries 5, Katana 50 MK II). But it could be my attack, which is admittedly ham fisted in the bass strings.

Thank you for your input. I still have a couple of days to decide. Part of me wants to keep it because it is a slick and convenient piece of gear. The other side wonders if I’ll get tired of its limitations or if I’m “beta testing” a unit that will be improved next year. Such is the way with this digital stuff.

 

[bobio]

After taking care of all my family duties for Christmas, I bought a Spark Mini for myself. The amp wasn’t even on my radar till I got a targeted IG ad last week. I went down the rabbit hole and bought one at GC yesterday so I could have it now, even though it was $45 more out the door than ordering direct from the Positive Grid website.

Very nice look and feel. The app works well and I was able to ditch the presets (too much delay!) and dial in some bold clean tones that I enjoy. Unfortunately, these little speakers cannot keep up with the available volume of the amp. They buzz and clip on anything even approaching halfway on the volume knob. This is with my Tele with AV 64 pups, not hot by any means. With my Epi SG, forget it.

Funny thing is that it does not exhibit this problem when used as a Bluetooth speaker and does put out an impressive low end. The sound holds together perfectly until the last 5% or so on the knob, at which point it oddly becomes all mids.

I have about 9 days before I head back to the big city and can return it. I’ve only fooled around with it for a couple hours, updated the firmware and set it aside to get a full charge to see if that sorts anything out.

Some of the reviews I read and watched did mention the clipping/farting speakers at max volume, but I’m getting the issue at volumes that seem to be a dealbreaker. I just know I’ll be disappointed with it over the long term if I have to neuter my tone settings or lighten my attack.

It seems that the delays and reverbs in the presets soften the sound/attack so the buzzing isn’t as noticeable. When I pulled those things back, the buzz just jumped out.

Anyone else have this experience? Any chance I got a bum unit? Do you think they’ll loosen up/break in after a bit?

I do think it’s working properly; I just think the speakers suck. I’m sure that an upgrade to these speakers will be the headline when the inevitable MKII comes around. I don’t want to feel like a sucker for keeping this, but I can’t believe there aren’t more complaints about these weak sauce speakers.

Any and all opinions welcome!

Have you run any of the firmware updates? Doesn't matter when you bought it, it is probably still on the original firmware.

https://help.positivegrid.com/hc/en-us/articles/5854813666189-Spark-MINI-Firmware-Update

 

[dinomike77]

I did indeed do the firmware update when I first fired it up, as prompted by the app.

 

[dinomike77]

Gave it a whirl at half volume and the speakers still clip/buzz. I tried the HI-Z setting in the app and that helped, but didn’t eliminate it completely. I also removed the grille to make sure there wasn’t something trapped and vibrating around the speaker.

Probably just the way I play, but there is a Reddit thread of folks with the same issue regarding the speakers. There is also a thread on Positive Grid’s forum that discusses the hiss on attack. So, these are known issues that affect either a portion of units and/or certain types of users.

Either way, I think I’ll just return it for now and keep an eye out for future revisions of the hardware. It is a very cool, very slick concept and the execution was 80% of the way there for me.

I also realize that I’m in the minority as there are more users that don’t seem to have these issues at all. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.