Amp Volume vs Guitar Volume

[Joe M]

Ok, here's one that I need an explanation about.....for whatever reason, I've always turned the volume on my amps up quite high, 7 or 8, and adjusted the level on my guitar to suit the setting, regardless if gigging or at home. Brought home a CS Tele last week with a HB in the neck and I was having a hard time getting rid of the "woofiness" in the neck position, especially the low E and A strings. Tried all the usual things, like lowering the pickup on the bass side and raising the pole pieces on the E and A, yadda, yadda, which helped a bit. Fooled around with the eq settings on my amp, again, with not much help. Out of frustration, I turned the volume on the amp down to 2.5-3 and voila, the guitar sounded crisp and clear on the neck position, when I upped the guitar volume. Of course, when I switched to the bridge, it was way too bright, but that's what a tone control is for, right???

So, my question is, why? Is this something I have been missing all along? I did notice with my regular single-coil neck position guitars, they all sounded fuller and bigger.

Thanks for any insight.

 

[wabashslim]

Is this something I have been missing all along?

Yes.

Search "treble bleed". Some guitars (like yours) need it more than others. Don't fall for the "50's wiring" jive that some will suggest, it'll wreck your tone control when you play the way you do with the guitar volume down (I don't mean it'll physically hurt anything, but your tone control will turn into a useless second volume control and won't control tone).

But you might consider changing your control style a bit...

 

[Jakedog]

I have never been a fan of a guitar volume anywhere but wide open. Unless I’m doing swells, or muting between songs, that’s where it stays. I have never met a guitar I liked the sound of with the volume down. Every pickup I’ve ever used sounds better when it’s not being neutered.

I’ve always said that cranking the amp and riding the volume knob can result in a decent clean, or a decent dirty, but neither one will be really great.

 

[dan40]

Your amp may use a "bright cap" across the volume control. This makes the amp brighter at low volumes but it looses it's effectiveness as you turn up the amp's volume knob. Many of the Fender and Marshall circuits came with a bright cap on the volume pot. Many players would remove them because it made the amp a bit too bright at lower volume settings.

 

[ahiddentableau]

Your amp may use a "bright cap" across the volume control. This makes the amp brighter at low volumes but it looses it's effectiveness as you turn up the amp's volume knob. Many of the Fender and Marshall circuits came with a bright cap on the volume pot. Many players would remove them because it made the amp a bit too bright at lower volume settings.

This was my thought as well. I'd like to know if your amp has a bright cap installed.

 

[JustABluesGuy]

I used to crank my guitar and adjust the amp, but it was limiting. When I started setting up my amp with the volume rolled back, my tone improved greatly.

Now, depending on the amp I tend to run my amp wide open and adjust from the guitar.

 

[bigben55]

I recommend the Kinman style treble bleed. I've tried all 3.

I wouldn't do 50s wiring on a traditional tele, but I love it on my P90 guitar. I did it with 50s wiring AND a treble bleed. It does what you say to the tone knob to an extent. From 10 to 5, it doesn't do much to tone. I see it as more of a gain fine tuner, and its very useful to me. But from 5 to 1 it works as a normal tone knob, albeit very abruptly. I did this wiring because I use this guitar as my "plug straight into a cranked tube amp and ride the knobs" guitar, and with it I can get EVERY shade of overdrive possible. The Wolfetone Mean/Meaner P90s are pretty hot, but the bridge never gets too bright like a normal tele pickup can. I rarely need to or even want to roll off treble.

Neck humbucker teles present their own set of issues you need to compromise on.

Search "treble bleed". Some guitars (like yours) need it more than others. Don't fall for the "50's wiring" jive that some will suggest, it'll wreck your tone control when you play the way you do with the guitar volume down (I don't mean it'll physically hurt anything, but your tone control will turn into a useless second volume control and won't control tone).

But you might consider changing your control style a bit...

 

[scottser]

I set my guitar on 10 then 3/4 max out the volume on the amp. I add gain to where its nice and hairy and that's me set. Halfway on the volume gives me a perfect clean, 7 or 8 has the right balance of sparkle for soft playing or grit if you dig in.. When I change pickup setting I always adjust the tone to compensate no matter where the volume is at.

 

[adjason]

not much to add here but I notice the same thing with neck humbuckers- they like to be turned all the way up

 

[TheCheapGuitarist]

Lots of good comments before mine. I'm just popping in to say I would be scared to death to keep my amp around 7 or 9 and rely solely on the volume control. One wrong move and I could shatter windows and pop my ear drums.

 

[Dan German]

I have never been a fan of a guitar volume anywhere but wide open. Unless I’m doing swells, or muting between songs, that’s where it stays. I have never met a guitar I liked the sound of with the volume down. Every pickup I’ve ever used sounds better when it’s not being neutered.

I find I need to use the guitar volume for my effects (particularly the fuzz). But we’re talking about riding between 7 and 10, not turning it down.

 

[kuch]

+11 on the peg the volume knob on your guitar, or close to it and I've always been happy with my "sound"

Maybe it's because I currently have a SFVC and 65PRRI that suits playing at home for me. In the past I've had amps that suited where I played and amp volume wasn't an issue.

I'll plug in a couple of guitars tomorrow and mess around with the amp/guitar volume settings and see if it makes any difference.

Doesn't it come down to playing your amp at the volume it was meant to be played?

 

[Beachbum]

I just got a 65 PRRI recently and I've been messing around trying to get the ultra clean I like to use once in awhile. What I'm doing is setting the volume on the amp fairly low and then raising it using a six band EQ pedal that gives me up to +15 db and gives me control of the midrange which I set at a shallow V. It seems to give me a lot more headroom that way. It's getting me where I want to be but I don't know why. Just curious. Maybe one of you amp gurus could explain it to me.