Wiring for half out of phase middle position

[TheWalrus390]

Hi everyone,

I heard about the "half out of phase mod" and since I actually don't care much about the standard middle position on my tele, I thought I could invert the neck pickup wires to make the middle position out of phase and then put a 10nf cap in series with the neck to get that stratty in-between like sound.

Could someone please tell me where should I wire the cap to achieve this?

Thanks a lot. Cheers.

 

[wabashslim]

That's not how it works. Leave the pickups in-phase. Then wire the capacitor in series with neck pickup. The capacitor, depending on the value, will cut some of the neck's bass and give the HOOP sound, the smaller the cap value the more effect it'll have. If the cap is large enough it won't have any effect at all, if too small your neck pickup will sound really thin.

Can't really help with the cap value because I've only done this to a Les Paul with P90's to clear up some mud; I found the HOOP sound was an unpleasant side effect. 10nF might be on the big side or maybe not, but you might as well start there.

If you're hoping to get the Strat quack doing this you'll be disappointed. You may get a sound you'll find usable but it won't sound like a Strat. You need 3 pickups for that, in the right locations, and sometimes not even then.

Oh, and...welcome!

 

[TheWalrus390]

Gotcha, I don't know much about wiring so I'll follow what you wrote. I makes sense.

I don't really expect it to sound just like a strat's 2nd position but I think it's nice to try it out and see what kind of tones I can get. I am a bit bored I guess.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and the welcoming

Cheers

 

[hemingway]

I did the swapped neck wires mod for a while on one of my T types. It worked as advertised, but I got bored of it after a while and changed it back. Fun sound, though.

 

[Bearzooka]

Here's the wiring diagram from Bill Lawrence himself. I don't know what that other guy was talking about, but I used this wiring with a .01uf cap on a guitar with 2 P90s and those mother duckers quack!

 

[TheWalrus390]

I did the swapped neck wires mod for a while on one of my T types. It worked as advertised, but I got bored of it after a while and changed it back. Fun sound, though.

Yes I tried it. That result in a completely out of phase sound. But like you I wasn't impressed by it and changed it back.

 

[TheWalrus390]

Here's the wiring diagram from Bill Lawrence himself. I don't know what that other guy was talking about, but I used this wiring with a .01uf cap on a guitar with 2 P90s and those mother duckers quack!

View attachment 894345

Yes indeed. Thank you for the diagram. I had looked at a couple of those earlier. Bill L. came out with really interesting stuff. But I am not fond of S1 switches and push pull alike. Don't know why though, maybe cause I just want the thing to be as simple to operate as possible.

I am glad to hear another positive opinion on the HOoP sound, I am definitely giving it a go.

 

[Tuxedo Poly]

This is a Phostenix version with a pushpull switch

 

[sjtalon]

I did the above (acually did it with a 4w so have series as well) with Twang king pups in my Squire CV Thinline.

I like the results. Kinda Strat-ish. Cool option.

 

[wabashslim]

Leave the pickups in-phase. Then wire the capacitor in series with neck pickup. The capacitor, depending on the value, will cut some of the neck's bass and give the HOOP sound, the smaller the cap value the more effect it'll have.
I've only done this to a Les Paul with P90's to clear up some mud; I found the HOOP sound was an unpleasant side effect.
If you're hoping to get the Strat quack doing this you'll be disappointed. You may get a sound you'll find usable but it won't sound like a Strat.

I checked and found I used a .0056uF, much smaller than Bill's .022, but then he reversed the neck p'up's wires; I didn't.

Here's the wiring diagram from Bill Lawrence himself. I don't know what that other guy was talking about, but I used this wiring with a .01uf cap on a guitar with 2 P90s and those mother duckers quack!

If you reversed the wiring I'm sure that accounts for the difference in our results. I was only going for the bass cut, not the quack. But I just listened to that Jerry Donahue in the Premiere Guitar demo and that HOOP really does get close to the Strat quack. Now I have to reconsider my wiring scheme for a certain 2-minibucker guitar I built.

 

[moosie]

That's not how it works. Leave the pickups in-phase. Then wire the capacitor in series with neck pickup. The capacitor, depending on the value, will cut some of the neck's bass and give the HOOP sound, the smaller the cap value the more effect it'll have. If the cap is large enough it won't have any effect at all, if too small your neck pickup will sound really thin.

Can't really help with the cap value because I've only done this to a Les Paul with P90's to clear up some mud; I found the HOOP sound was an unpleasant side effect. 10nF might be on the big side or maybe not, but you might as well start there.

If you're hoping to get the Strat quack doing this you'll be disappointed. You may get a sound you'll find usable but it won't sound like a Strat. You need 3 pickups for that, in the right locations, and sometimes not even then.

Oh, and...welcome!

Hmm, that's kinda the reverse of what I'd consider the norm for HOoP.

I wire the pickups OOP parallel, then add the cap in series with either pickup.

The cap shifts phase. So, adding a cap to the IP pickups moves it slightly OOP.

Adding a cap to the OOP pickups moves it slightly back IN phase. Less OOP. Half OOP.

I'd say six one half a dozen the other, but the values make the difference. And done my way, it gets pretty Stratty, to my ear.

I'd start with a .01 cap, and experiment with values from there.

For those following along, a series cap is a bass cut, the larger the cap, the smaller the cut. A .01 uf cap is a fairly subtle cut.

EDIT: I replied before reading your post #10.

 

[DIEmicrosoft]

This was mentioned in the documentation that came with my freeway switch. As simple as soldering in a .01 cap to replace a link.
Can't link the page, but go to the freeway page and select schematics blade and select this file. 3B3-01 2PU 2Pot Part1.pdf