Pickup pole adjustment screws: Type of steel make a difference?

[Doctorx33]

I read an article a while back regarding the type of steel used for pole adjustment screws can make a difference in tone. I'd like some opinion on this, generally speaking and for P90's in particular.

Mojotone has 1010 steel screws for cheap I thought I might give them a try.

I've seen posts where the type of metal in other parts of a pickup can make a difference, why not pole adjustment screws?

What do you guys think?

 

[charlie chitlin]

Well...with a P90, they go into the magnets and "conduct" the magnetic field up to the strings, so I imagine the material would make a difference.
On a far end of the spectrum, using brass or plastic screws would definitely sound different from a ferrous metal.

 

[guitar_paul1]

For cheap why not?
Might make a difference.

 

[hamerfan]

1010 is very low carbon steel, that was used in the 50ies and gives a rounder tone with a more wooly bass. So there is some chance - depending on the vintage accuracy of your pups - you won‘t here any difference. I went the other way and changed the screws in my 1952 neck pup to 1020 screws. This thightened the lows and gave a tad more cut in the highs. The difference from 1010 to 1020 is small but audible.

 

[JRapp]

I have used them in a few of my brighter P90/HB guitars and they make a small difference; a little less attack, a little less high-end. For $3.60, definitely worth trying it out.

 

[Doctorx33]

Thanks guys. Where can I find 1020 screws? The only screws I can find that indicate the steel content are the ones at Mojotone.

 

[hamerfan]

The higher number means more carbon content means more highs:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/123689097898

The are 1018 which are similar to 1020.


(link removed)

These are 1022, even more more carbon content.

 

[archetype]

1010 is very low carbon steel, that was used in the 50ies and gives a rounder tone with a more wooly bass. So there is some chance - depending on the vintage accuracy of your pups - you won‘t here any difference. I went the other way and changed the screws in my 1952 neck pup to 1020 screws. This thightened the lows and gave a tad more cut in the highs. The difference from 1010 to 1020 is small but audible.

I can't believe this is a thing and that people are ascribing sonic properties to the truely minute percentage of carbon in 5 gram steel pole screws.

Breaking down "1010":
1 = Plain steel
0 = Not alloyed with anything
10 = 0.10% carbon

The difference between "10" and "20" is the amount of CARBON in the steel. In the lab it's been shown that an increase in carbon decreases magnetization, but the amount of carbon in 5 grams of steel and the low gauss of the magnet makes it difficult to find a lab-related instrument that could even measure that minute difference.

In my checkered background, I'm an engineering and materials guy, so I understand that it's physics that makes things work. If there's a change, then it can be measured. Show me an audio spectrum analysis of the 1010 and 1020 screws in any P-90.

 

[schmee]

I don't know that grade or hardness of steel effect it's magnetic characteristics........? if it's alloyed with more of something then probably does though, thus cheapest plain steel would be best probably.

 

[EsquireOK]

Not a good choice for dirty tones with cut through. They will give you a warmer, more classic, tone. Would work well with cleaner tones.

Better to start out with an excess of tightness and treble. It is very easy to make a pickup warmer by using basic guitar and amp knobs. It is near impossible to add cut and clarity to a pickup that doesn't put it out in the first place.

All that being said, the difference will not be huge.

You will get a larger difference – and probably a more useful one, given the amount of dirt that is viewed as "normal" these days – by going to to set screws instead of the classic fillister screws.

 

[rigatele]

In my checkered background, I'm an engineering and materials guy, so I understand that it's physics that makes things work. If there's a change, then it can be measured. Show me an audio spectrum analysis of the 1010 and 1020 screws in any P-90.

Like this?
https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8036/addiction-steel-alloy-electrical-evaluation

 

[archetype]

Like this?
https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8036/addiction-steel-alloy-electrical-evaluation

Exactly. If it's pickup-related, @Antigua Tele will likely measure it. Scroll down to the plain language conclusion.

"That this test shows, in contrast to the various screws and slugs, is that they (sic) grade of "low carbon" steel used is irrelevant, but the size and shape of the steel piece is highly important."

 

[hamerfan]

„If it is not measurable, its not there.“
My findings are different.

 

[Wallaby]

IME the alloys used for pole screws, slugs, keeper, frame, cover, baseplate mounting screws and the length of the pole screws all contribute.

Those factors are part of the "recipe" along with coil wire gauge, insulation thickness, tension and number of turns.

 

[Sparky2]

Teeing-up what could be the most tedious blindfold challenge video ever.

 

[vhilts1]

Again....like MANY things guitar discussed here ......is there a real difference your typical OCD guitar geek TDPRI member can hear in front of his amp with his guitar.....that answer is yes....there is a difference

Is it noticeable in a live band setting to someone who is unaware of the switch ??
Usually not.

And finally..... is this difference easily compensated for elsewhere in the signal chain ?? Most often yes

 

[Wallaby]

Here is something topical

 

[rigatele]

„If it is not measurable, its not there.“
My findings are different.

The difference is - the measurements can be independently repeated over and over by anyone and give the same results. That's a kind of proof. Can you do that?

 

[hamerfan]

But what do you measure? The perception of sound in your brain or just technical values?
I was majoring in physics at High School. I know enough about that stuff.
I give you an example, which has a simpler solution: The human body does feel the air temperature differently with other factors like air moisture, wind, height of ground is standing on, if sun is touching the skin, even time of day and other personal factors. Since about 20 years ago the weather stations gives us the chill factor to adjust the accurate measurements to the reality, but thats just on one factor for feeling temperature.
Measurement are just helpers to digitalize what we percept, but they are not equal to our perception, even adjusted with chill factors.

 

[hamerfan]

To Wallaby: wrong screws, we are talking about poles screws and not bobbin screws