Installing Hipshot: Question

[MarkU]

HI. First of all I just want to say that I have been lurking for a while (and lusting for a B/G bender) but have now joined the mechanical bender set. Fingers have been doing the job for a while but I can't resist the Hipshot any longer. So...

Santa just arrived with a Hipshot and I'm getting ready to install it. I have a question that should be obvious but is not. There are three spring like wires with hook ends (one from the B, one from the G and one from the E-D drop toggle). It looks like the strings should go under these and be pulled down but there is no mention of them in the instructions and there are not shown on the diagram. So do the strings go under these (and why is only the G bender covered with a Teflon slieve and not the others?

the next question: Will the extra body mount screws make a difference? I'm putting the Hipshot on a Squire body so I'm not worried about ruining a Classic Tele body but if it makes a difference, I'll do it.

thanks in advance

Mark

 

[helle_man]

It kinda sounds like your Hipshot may be one of the older ones with long spring type retainers. Yes, the string should go under these. But if you have an ash tray type bridge, drilling 3 holes into the back of the ash tray would negate the necessity of even using the retainers, which are there to mainly keep a downward angle of the strings on the bridge saddles. Check out the instructions or go to the Hipshot website to get directions on where to drill.

And I would use the extra 2 holes on both sides of the strap button hole to mount 2 screws. It will make the Hipshot rock solid and create even and smoothe bends. Hope that helps.
Will Ray

 

[MarkU]

Will: thanks for the input. The Hipshot is new so it shouldn't be an older type since they told me they had to build it when I called them . I'll check out the web site for more instructions.

PS I love Escape from Hollywood - my into to the Hellcasters.

Mark

 

[jussishow]

A picture tells more than a thousand words :

My Hipshot/Wilkinson toploader bridge "installation"

As You can see I removed the retainer springs, and used the supplied teflon tubing in the toploader holes. Works like a charm !

I haven't used the 2 extra mounting holes ... yet ... But I haven't used my Hipshot HW1 outside the safety of my "bedroom studio" And I mostly use the G-Bender/palm lever ...

EDIT

Hipshot installation using stock bridge ! Even better ... Why did I buy the Wilkinson in the first place ...
I drilled 2.5mm holes for the "bender strings", and used the same teflon tubing. The bridgeplate is pretty soft, so You don't need a drillpress or anything ! Just a good quality drillbit, a good tablevice and a handheld drill of some sort. (I've got a 220V Proxxon).

/J

 

[MarkU]

Jussi

Thanks for the photos. It is true, a picture tells the story so much better. Your set up helps to answer the next question I was about to ask: how would it work with the holes in the bridge plate drilled low to maintain a steep string angle. there have been concerns about poor sustain resulting from a shallow sting angle. Hipshot says to drill the holes high up so as to reduce friction but lower would be better for tension on the bridge saddle. If yours works I will give it a try (I too have a Wilkinson bridge but not the top loader, so I get to choose where to put the holes).

Question: how did you remove the springs. It looks like there is a set screw going up from the bottom holding the shaft in place that would require a removal of a bit of the felt. It looks like this set screw is holding the shaft in place. Is this true?

One more. How did the strings stay in place on the Wilkinson saddles? Dose it work better with the standard bridge / straight saddles?

Thanks Mark

 

[jussishow]

Question: how did you remove the springs. It looks like there is a set screw going up from the bottom holding the shaft in place that would require a removal of a bit of the felt. It looks like this set screw is holding the shaft in place. Is this true?

Yes . setscrew & clips on the shaft.
I disassembled my Hipshot when I got it ... Partly because I wanted to remove the retainer springs, and partly to clean it up properly !

One more. How did the strings stay in place on the Wilkinson saddles? Dose it work better with the standard bridge / straight saddles?
Thanks Mark

The Wilkinson saddles were great ! I didn't have any problems with strings slipping around. The saddles on the standard bridge are pretty old with nicely worn grooves ... Ie. shouldn't be a problem on this one either ...
But, the standard bridge & saddles sound nicer IMO ! ... The Wilkinson bridge and/or saddles made the sound "duller" in a way ...

/J

 

[MarkU]

Thanks J

I'm in the middle of the install, with the holes drilled low. The springs are definitely not needed so off they come! Your comment on the Wilkinson saddles vs the Fender non-compensated is interesting. I may go that way after I try out this set up. I'll let you know how it comes out. Thanks so much for your timely input. Happy bending to you!!

Mark

 

[jussishow]

Good luck !
BTW : It was bender-freaks reply to this HW1/Hipshot thread : link that got me a bit curious about the whole "Wilkinson comp. vs stock saddle" issue ...

And just to make the issue a bit more complicated :

My Nashville Bender with a Glendale bridge with compensated stainless steel saddles ! It's the single best upgrade I've ever done to any of my guitars !

/J

 

[eddiewagner]

A picture tells more than a thousand words.

that´s exactly how i mounted mine as well. i used a 2,5 mm drill and a regular drill. kneeling on the floor, pressing the bridge to the ground. worked alright. don´t want to do it every day. i also drilled two holes into the hipshot to fix it better to the back of my tele. all works good. just do it. eddie

 

[MarkU]

The holes have been drilled, the bender installed and I spent about an hour and a half with it after the install (just 5 minutes, I said to myself. I have to wrap Christmas presents. You know how it goes!) the only problem is that notes stay a bit sharp after I bend them up. If I bend with my fingers they go back down so it sounds like friction ins my problem. I'm going to try a re-grease on it. Oh yes, one more. the G string is a bit dull. Maybe the saddle? The B and low E are fine.

thanks for the photos and input

Merry Christmas Mark

Mark

 

[J. Hayes]

I don't like those nylon tubes going through the bridge.....

or the "springs" to hold the strings down. I've used HipShots for 25 years and have always just cut a notch in the back of the bridge and if a little more height is needed, just shim the neck a little. Why add another point of friction to the string path when it's not needed? I only have one HipShot equipped guitar at the moment but here's a couple of shots. Also when the B bender lever is activated it presses down on the string so that really makes for great string contact across the bridge. I cut off my G string lever so it could always be tightened down and sticking straight out and it wouldn't interfere with palm muting or anything..........JH in Va.

 

[bender-freak]

what J.H. said on cuttin' that "G" lever down shorter and cinching it down ...i've always done that on hipshots and there is nothing in the way of resting/positioning your picking hand....i found out quickly a long time ago if the "G" lever was left long/stock and not tightened down, when i needed a G bend in a lick, by the time i "found/grabbed" the lever, the need for it in whatever lick or fill was long gone....

 

[garytelecastor]

Mark here is another suggestion. I had a hipshot on one of my teles for awhile.
I don't know how attached you are to your bridge plate, but I took a round file and filed down the bridge plate, rather than drilling. Just a thought.

 

[MarkU]

My Nashville Bender with a Glendale bridge with compensated stainless steel saddles ! It's the single best upgrade I've ever done to any of my guitars !

Jussishow: I'd love to know what made this upgrade so good. Was it the compensation? the stainless steel? or...?:?:

I've used HipShots for 25 years and have always just cut a notch in the back of the bridge and if a little more height is needed,

J/ Gary: how is the sustain, tone etc. with the notch and fairly flat string angle? I went with the steeper angle but higher friction option and there are issues with the string returning to pitch after bending.

thanks

Mark

 

[jussishow]

Jussishow: I'd love to know what made this upgrade so good. Was it the compensation? the stainless steel? or...?:?:

thanks

Mark

It's hard to describe really ... :neutral: Going from the stock, modern 6 saddle bridge to the Glendale kind of loosened the whole guitar up in a way ... I don't think it's the compensation (I rarerly play chords past the 7:th fret ...) ... could be the stainless steel ... might be the bridge plate material ... possibly the 3 saddles ... who knows ...

In my opinion It just feels & sounds so much nicer with the Glendale bridge ...

I'd love to try a Callaham bridge BTW !

/J

 

[garytelecastor]

Mark-To be honest with you I never tried it with the hole in the bridge option. I know that when I used mine with the notch the sustain was no different than the other strings.
As far as pitch is concerned, you might want to look at the tonal adjustment and make sure that this is correct. Also are you stretching your strings after putting them on? I always stretch my strings on my guitars when I change strings after they are on the guitar to set them.

 

[helle_man]

Need Pix of the Problem

Pix would be helpful on your Hipshot installation to trouble shoot the pitch problem.

I have probably 35 or so guitars with Hipshots. Most have holes drilled thru the bridge. A few of my early ones use the spring retainer with a notched out ash tray. Personally, I prefer the hole thru the bridge. It looks better, and provides just the right angle over the bridge saddle.

I can't stress enough the importance of having just the right angle of the string over the B saddle; too severe an angle will bind up the string causing pitch problems. Too little angle will have the string popping out of the B saddle string "slot", which is annoying if you pick with fingers or pick & fingers like I do.

When properly installed, Hipshots stay in tune perfectly. Installing the first one is always a pain, but future ones become easier and easier.

Dave Borisoff (owner of Hipshot) told me he was going to put an installation video on the Hipshot site. I don't know if it's up there yet.

Again, good close up pix can help us determine what is causing the pitch problems.

Hope that helps.
Cheers.
Will Ray

 

[MarkU]

Thanks guys, for all your help. following Will's suggestion, here are a couple photos. (will, you did suggest "good" close up pix so I hope these will do! ).

Here are the 2 problems:1) Tone/poor sustain on the G string (B is fine!?!?)
and 2) imperfect return to pitch (yes I did stretch the strings so that is not the issue. If the G or B remains a bit sharp, a bend via the fingers will return it to pitch.) I suspect my problem for return to pitch is is a too steep angle. The steep angle should help the G issue, though. One more comment: With the strings loose the benders do not rock easily. I have moved them aside and applied lithium grease and that helped some but I would think they should rock back and forth easily!?!).

(Now I have to figure out how to put a picture in this message!) Ah success on the pix! So, what's the verdict? Too steep and angle (I did ignore the instructions on this one based on what others have done!)

 

[spankdplank]

I have a similar set up on my HS B bender with low E toggle, and just bored out my top mount bridge's string through holes like you did. There is a pretty sharp string angle and sometimes the B string does not return to pitch. I put a drop of 3 in 1 oil in the teflon tube and a drop on the (brass) bridge saddle where the string passes over. This improved the pitch return greatly, but it is still not 100% perfect. I have come to the conclusion that a shallow string break may not be the best for sustain and tone, but it does improve pitch return, as the folks who just notch the bridge lip and have a shallow string break don't seem to have this problem.

 

[helle_man]

From the pix it looks like the 3 holes are drilled too low thru the ash tray, causing too steep a string angle. I would drill the holes as close to the top of the ash tray as possible to lessen the angle.

Also, I would use a good Teflon lubricant that is safe on wood, plastic, metal etc. Hope that helps.

An alternative would be to shim the neck so that you lower the saddles, thus reducing the string angle, but I don't like messing with neck angles.

As to the G string losing sustain - you'll have to be a detective and see what the problem is. It could be too much grease goo on the bridge or nut, or a bad string slot cut on the nut...it could be a lot of things. But it should not be bender related.

Hope that helps.
WR