What kind of pickup works best for a lap steel?

[Blue Bill]

GFS has the Lil Killer Tele blade pickups in three values, I have the vintage 7k in my Tele, the modern 10k in my short scale Esquire and Strat Bass. The 15k I've never had use for. But they fit right in a Tele bridge

CD, thanks for stopping by, I hope you are well and happy. A blade pup mught be the way to go, they seem to have a smoother frequency response sometimes. So many choices.

I like these....

View attachment 818830
Supro-tastic.

If you're looking for something to fit a Tele cavity, something hot-vintage would work- a good Broadcaster type would be my choice.

Flaneur, those Supro's are legendary, mucho mojo. I'll check out the Supro-tastic. I've started to see those blue Supro amps all over the place. A nice vintage-spec Tele bridge pup is a strong contender. Maybe I should build two, one to play and one to try out different pickups on.

I have one of the mid-50's BR-9's with the P90 in it. Nice and smooth until I get it over halfway, then it screams. I tend to play more overdriven stuff with it, so it's perfect for me.

Mr fitz, those old Gibsons are so cool, I love the cover over the pickup and bridge, it gives you a nice place to rest your right hand. I have an Epiphone P90 style pickup, I may end up using it.

 

[Flaneur]

"Flaneur, those Supro's are legendary, mucho mojo. I'll check out the Supro-tastic. I've started to see those blue Supro amps all over the place. A nice vintage-spec Tele bridge pup is a strong contender. Maybe I should build two, one to play and one to try out different pickups on. "

Mojo.

My Buddy was playing in a bar in Anchorage, 25 years ago, when a guy came in and said his Mom had a nicer steel, in her attic, doing nothing- and that he'd bring it back, next time he went home to Chicago. Of course, my friend thought nothing more about it, until a few years down the road, the Chicago guy came into another Alaskan bar, with the Supro I've pictured- and gifted it to my buddy (who is a celebrated blues steel player).

This guitar was passed on to me, ten years back, with the same proviso- that I shouldn't ever sell it, only give it to a deserving person, at some future date. I will, one day soon...and I have a young local player in mind.

I you see a Supro for sale- or another Valco design, with the original pickup and plate- then I highly recommend you buy it. This shouldn't stop you from building two steels, of course.

 

[muscmp]

Mr fitz, those old Gibsons are so cool, I love the cover over the pickup and bridge, it gives you a nice place to rest your right hand. I have an Epiphone P90 style pickup, I may end up using it.

some people don't like the cover as it makes it more difficult to do palm mutes by the bridge with your right hand.

play music!

 

[Blue Bill]

"Flaneur, those Supro's are legendary, mucho mojo. I'll check out the Supro-tastic. I've started to see those blue Supro amps all over the place. A nice vintage-spec Tele bridge pup is a strong contender. Maybe I should build two, one to play and one to try out different pickups on. "

Mojo.

My Buddy was playing in a bar in Anchorage, 25 years ago, when a guy came in and said his Mom had a nicer steel, in her attic, doing nothing- and that he'd bring it back, next time he went home to Chicago. Of course, my friend thought nothing more about it, until a few years down the road, the Chicago guy came into another Alaskan bar, with the Supro I've pictured- and gifted it to my buddy (who is a celebrated blues steel player).

This guitar was passed on to me, ten years back, with the same proviso- that I shouldn't ever sell it, only give it to a deserving person, at some future date. I will, one day soon...and I have a young local player in mind.

I you see a Supro for sale- or another Valco design, with the original pickup and plate- then I highly recommend you buy it. This shouldn't stop you from building two steels, of course.

Great story!! Believe it or not, 2 or 3 years ago, my wife and I were visiting an old friend of hers. Her husband, who I had never met, and I, hit it off and had a long conversation about music. After an hour or so, he looked at me kinda funny and said, "OK, you're the guy." After explaining that his hands had become too painful to play anymore, he gave me a nice Squier Tele, an Epiphone Valve Jr amp, and a Hagstrom Viking 6-string. I'm still blown away. Same condition: I can't ever sell them, only pass them on to someone deserving. I play the Tele a lot. The Hag is out on loan. It's important to remember these people when it starts to seem like the world is going down the tubes.

 

[mrfitz98]

some people don't like the cover as it makes it more difficult to do palm mutes by the bridge with your right hand.

play music!

I could see that could be a problem for some folks. It's never really bothered me. I love that squeal when the bar is almost to the cover, it's so drenched in overtones.

 

[Hamstein]

I made one a while back out of a chunk of mahogany mantlepiece that I was given, used threaded rod for the nut and just raided my old guitar parts bin for everything else, I ended up with a twin blade humbucker in it. Sounds good!

 

[Terrygh1949]

Everybody is entitled to the favorite, but:

"Unlike the neck pickup, which was designed specifically for the Tele, the earliest bridge pickups were adapted from a pickup Fender was already manufacturing for lap steels.
...
In fact, many old Fender Champion lap steels had their original pickups scavenged after Keith Richards’ tech revealed that he had been installing them in his boss’s guitars. Until recently, these easy-to-find pickups were an affordable way into vintage Tele tone. Depending on the magnet wire, they ohm out between 5.8K and 8K. The lower DC reading equates to a clear, harmonically rich and trebly tone, while the hotter ones sound more like Broadcaster pickups.

The rectangular bottom flats have to be trimmed to fit and a metal baseplate must be attached, but otherwise the specs are almost identical to the bridge pickups on many of the earliest Esquires and Broadcasters. These included 43-gauge wire and alnico III slugs that were level with the top of the flatwork. However, the diameter of the guitar pickup slugs was slightly wider."

https://guitar.com/guides/essential-guide/all-about-telecaster-bridge-pickups/

Not exactly the same, but the ordinary tele bridge pickup was adapted from the lap steel pickup. You could start with a tele bridge pickup and not be very far off.

but there's a few more folks on here that will know this kind of stuff in better detail than I do.

Single coils.

 

[Andy ZZ]

If you ever read through the threads st steelguitarforum.com you find out what I did over the years.
All pickups sound good and some sound great.
But there are a few that sound over-the-top excellent. One of the other thread contributors showed the holy grail:

The Reason:
With horseshoe magnet pickups, strings run through a 3 dimensional magnetic field which translates to a more detailed and complex signal being sent to the amp or recording gear.
The tone these pickups create is unlike any other type pf pickup.
Valco had a similar pickup that also creates a very complex tone (mounted in a tele, bridg position):

-az-

 

[Blue Bill]

Thanks Andy, that's very interesting.

 

[billy logan]

+1 to Andy ZZ's observations in post #48

Wish my lap steel had the tuning pegs pointing up!

Otherwise I really like it. It's a '50's Silvertone with a string-through p/u very similar to those in this thread (e.g., post #39 on p.2) with the two offset rows of 3 holes. I am NOT very technical, but I'm pretty sure this is an accurate, representative diagram of the general type:

"1953 Valco El Grande"

CorrectedSchematic.jpg

I repeat, me not technical, but it seems like "split single-coil" applies here. (just to start an argument!)

Best of luck with your project! btw the answer to your "works best?" question IS: this very type of pickup
You could make one yourself. Me, I couldn't

To my ears it's rich and fun, thicker-sounding than a Fender guitar single-coil.

My oft-repeated nugget of advice for 6-string lap steel beginners: Prevent eleven notes!!!!! Mute 6 strings behind the bar, mute 5 strings in front of the bar. Lots of skin down on strings. That last remaining unmuted string is your melody note

(this advice from a barely past beginner stage, big-ol' hypocrite!)

edit to add> I dislike features, volume knobs, cord plugs in jacks, anything that gets in the way of picking - HOWEVER!!! - in the case of the string-through pickup, that "cover" (your impulse is to get rid of it) is extremely functional. The pickup LOSES a LOT!!!* of volume if you remove it! Not sure whether the "cover" is magnetically one with the rest of the pickup OR is it doing its magic magnetically isolated from the rest of the pickup?

I put "quotes" around "cover" because the string-through's "cover" does more than cover.

CALLING ALL INVENTORS!
muscmp mentioned palm-muting- ok ok ok: I'm picturing a lap-steel with the string-through p/u customized such that you can pivot the pickup's "cover" out of the way for reduced-volume palm-muting, then swing it back in place for normal-volume playing. !!!*to my ear, WAY more than half its volume.

 

[Blue Bill]

Billy Logan: Thanks for the ideas. The Valco El Grande, it sounds like a Sergio Leone western.

 

[kristen]

The Rickenbacker horseshoe pickup is the best pickup for lap steel.
I am actually starting to cry because I do not have one. they are expensive.
On a side note, an old 50-60s Fender 400 "cable guitar" (think pedal steel) have the most creamy sounding P90 sounding pickups. If I played one of these without using the pedals, I would be in heaven. Truly the best sounding in every way imaginable. BUT THEY ARE HEAVY.

 

[muscmp]

edit to add> I dislike features, volume knobs, cord plugs in jacks, anything that gets in the way of picking - HOWEVER!!! - in the case of the string-through pickup, that "cover" (your impulse is to get rid of it) is extremely functional. The pickup LOSES a LOT!!!* of volume if you remove it! Not sure whether the "cover" is magnetically one with the rest of the pickup OR is it doing its magic magnetically isolated from the rest of the pickup?

I put "quotes" around "cover" because the string-through's "cover" does more than cover.

CALLING ALL INVENTORS!
muscmp mentioned palm-muting- ok ok ok: I'm picturing a lap-steel with the string-through p/u customized such that you can pivot the pickup's "cover" out of the way for reduced-volume palm-muting, then swing it back in place for normal-volume playing. !!!*to my ear, WAY more than half its volume.

i'll have to pull my br9 cover to see if it does affect the sound but with it being plastic, possibly not. if it were metal, probably. thanks for that idea.

you would have to be pretty quick to swing the cover away and then swing it back, but, interesting idea.

play music!

 

[billy logan]

muscamp, I googled br9 and went to bb.steelguitarforum dot com- now I'm fairly sure the vintage Gibson BR-9 lap steel's pickup was not, electro-magnetically speaking haha, a string-thru; pretty sure the cover doesn't affect the sound.

ALSO! On a Valco, Silvertone, CooderCaster string-thru, the "cover" could pivot on one of the 4 hold-down screws; the other 3, and the functions of the other 3, could be taken care of thusly:

Throw away the other 3 screws (jk!) and at each of the non-pivot corners, fashion a little bump (on the underside of the "cover") and a receiving dimple on the support. Bump and dimple removable fastening system. There could be a little spring on top of the pivot corner screw to push down on the center of the "cover" to quickly secure it back in place, when Crocodile Rock is over.

OR!

You could move the entire "cover" in a straight line on 2 wide-set rails towards the bridge. Like (pretty sure) the open-able roof at the Dallas Cowboys football stadium moves.

CorrectedSchematic.jpg


Found the schematic at www.dennysguitars.com /. - lots of lap steel and Hawai'ian-style info there

The vertical dashed lines between the base of the string-thru and the "cover" are a mystery to me
Do they represent the 4 metal screws (of which I am throwing away 3 (jk)) which might bring magnetism to the "cover"?????????
I will say that the spacers that hold the "cover" above the strings ARE WOOD! painted metallic gold, on mine. Weird.
If this idea works, somebody should tell Mr. Cooder!

kristen - You've tried a lap-steel with a string-thru pickup (like the lower photo in post #48 by Andy ZZ) and you think it's inferior to the horseshoe pickup? (upper photo, same post)

I'm saddened, but then I should keep an open mind since I haven't played a lap steel with that shiny pickup!

 

[crazydave911]

This is my first that I made and still my favorite. I guess I had beginners luck and got things right (for me). IIRC the pickup was from a Samick/Korean guitar with a fugged neck. The important part is that from playing a Dobro for years I got the strings flat on top and good spacing

Sigh, my C6 baby

Dave

 

[Hamstein]

Prettier than my knockup job.....

 

[crazydave911]

Yeh, stained yellow pine and that headstock , has always worked well but I keep wondering how

And I never use anything but John Pearse strings

 

[Maricopa]

Lollar Horseshoe, Supro or Chicago Steel. None are cheap (particularly the 'Shoe), but they are hard to beat.

 

[Blue Bill]

muscamp, I googled br9 and went to bb.steelguitarforum dot com- now I'm fairly sure the vintage Gibson BR-9 lap steel's pickup was not, electro-magnetically speaking haha, a string-thru; pretty sure the cover doesn't affect the sound.

ALSO! On a Valco, Silvertone, CooderCaster string-thru, the "cover" could pivot on one of the 4 hold-down screws; the other 3, and the functions of the other 3, could be taken care of thusly:

Throw away the other 3 screws (jk!) and at each of the non-pivot corners, fashion a little bump (on the underside of the "cover") and a receiving dimple on the support. Bump and dimple removable fastening system. There could be a little spring on top of the pivot corner screw to push down on the center of the "cover" to quickly secure it back in place, when Crocodile Rock is over.

OR!

You could move the entire "cover" in a straight line on 2 wide-set rails towards the bridge. Like (pretty sure) the open-able roof at the Dallas Cowboys football stadium moves.

CorrectedSchematic.jpg


Found the schematic at www.dennysguitars.com /. - lots of lap steel and Hawai'ian-style info there

The vertical dashed lines between the base of the string-thru and the "cover" are a mystery to me
Do they represent the 4 metal screws (of which I am throwing away 3 (jk)) which might bring magnetism to the "cover"?????????
I will say that the spacers that hold the "cover" above the strings ARE WOOD! painted metallic gold, on mine. Weird.
If this idea works, somebody should tell Mr. Cooder!

kristen - You've tried a lap-steel with a string-thru pickup (like the lower photo in post #48 by Andy ZZ) and you think it's inferior to the horseshoe pickup? (upper photo, same post)

I'm saddened, but then I should keep an open mind since I haven't played a lap steel with that shiny pickup!

Billy Logan, I checked Denny's site, wow there's a ton of info there, thanks. http://www.dennysguitars.com/steelindex1.html He mentioned Fralin's, I looked up his website; Those Dynasonic P90s look nice, for $160. I suppose I could contact him and see if the ones he designed especially for steel, were available. They probably cost a bundle. I'm afraid I may build it, and not get hooked, then be stuck with a lapper that I spent a grand on, but couldn't sell for $200.

Lollar Horseshoe, Supro or Chicago Steel. None are cheap (particularly the 'Shoe), but they are hard to beat.

Hi Maricopa. Same deal as the Fralins, thats a lotta bucks for a beginner's instrument. ($600!) Now, I'm thinking I ought to keep it cheap and simple for my first try; something like Crazy Dave's sweet-looking pine special. If I learn to play that, I can go fancy later. Delayed gratification, yuck!

Hamstein, that's sleek! I'll bet it rips, through that Lonestar.

 

[muscmp]

muscamp, I googled br9 and went to bb.steelguitarforum dot com- now I'm fairly sure the vintage Gibson BR-9 lap steel's pickup was not, electro-magnetically speaking haha, a string-thru; pretty sure the cover doesn't affect the sound.

ALSO! On a Valco, Silvertone, CooderCaster string-thru, the "cover" could pivot on one of the 4 hold-down screws; the other 3, and the functions of the other 3, could be taken care of thusly:

Throw away the other 3 screws (jk!) and at each of the non-pivot corners, fashion a little bump (on the underside of the "cover") and a receiving dimple on the support. Bump and dimple removable fastening system. There could be a little spring on top of the pivot corner screw to push down on the center of the "cover" to quickly secure it back in place, when Crocodile Rock is over.

OR!

You could move the entire "cover" in a straight line on 2 wide-set rails towards the bridge. Like (pretty sure) the open-able roof at the Dallas Cowboys football stadium moves.

you are correct that the br9 was a p13, and was too early, most likely, for a p90, and, not a string through. i don't believe fender ever used a string through but may have way back when.

sounds like it would have to be a quick move to bump the cover back and forth unless you are leaving it bumped over on a particular song, then, you can bump it back. easier for me to use the national or asher that doesn't have the cover so i can palm mute and use the br9 for what it is. thanks,

play music!