OD/Distortion recommendation for a JC

[schenkadere]

I purchased a JC-22 a few months back. Guitar straight into the amp is exactly what I was looking for and expected. A wonderful little amp.

I've been trying some dirt with the amp. I no longer have many dirt pedals to toy with, but I'm using a Valeton Dapper w OD(TS style) and Distortion(Marshall style), and they sound just ok.

I'm wondering if JC owners have some suggestions for some dirt that's voiced warm and smooth for this amp?

I didn't get any response in the JC owners club. This forum probably gets more traffic.

Thanks in advance!

 

[blowtorch]

@MilwMark (I think?)

 

[mkdaws32]

Are you looking to get high gain Marshall/Metal tones or to add some transparent crunch that lets the character of the amp shine through and adds a little "dirt"?

I get great high gain tones from a Joyo Crunch Distortion (MI CrunchBox clone) that doesn't rob too much bass like some pedals do. It's a cheap option to try.

For more transparent crunch sounds, I'm currently using an EHX Hot Wax. It's a dual overdrive containing a Hot Tubes and a Crayon overdrive. The Hot Tubes side is very transparent and just adds a bit of dirt to the existing tone. The Crayon side adds a bit of character - some mid-range boost, but not as dramatic as a tube screamer.

These pedals both work well with my low watt tube amp and my old Peavey solid state amp. I would guess, with the smaller version of JC you have, you will want to try pedals that do not cut much bass, so these might work well for you.

 

[11 Gauge]

I'm currently spending about 60% of the time playing through either a Vox MV50 Boutique or Boss Kat 50 (Mk 1).

I'm using a pretty straightforward OD that I can't give the details of, but it's basically your straight up soft clipper that doesn't rob as much bass and treble as a TS does, and has a more gradual transition from clean to clipped (what some of us would probably say 'sounds more amp-like'). I'd think there are probably lots of OD pedals that have similar behavior.

But for hotter OD or distortion, I use a treble booster variant in front of the OD. I've got a project build version of the C'bread Naga Viper, which has a range control, which allows for precisely setting the frequency response to be boosted. I basically set the range to where it's just a bit of overt midrange honk, and then I back it off a smidge (to add a little more low end).

The MV50 Boutique is a single channel basic amp, and I mainly just use it clean. With the right speaker(s)/cab, the combo of this amp and an OD and the treble booster, it's crazy IMO just how good it sounds. I was using that setup with a 2X12 open back cab with WGS ET65s in it, and it was pretty much on par with the modded AB165 Bassman head that I typically use (and can get almost as loud!).

I mainly use the Kat 50 clean as well, and the same pedals thru that amp sound very impressive as well. The only thing holding things back is the stock Kat 50 speaker, which simply can't stay as tight and punchy as I want, but that's admittedly at gig volumes.

Anyway, for me, it really currently is the combo of slightly more full range OD (vs. the TS stuff), then with a precisely adjustable treble booster, that allows me to really nail the exact crunch and distortion sounds that I want, and it keeps things down to just two pedals w/only 3 knobs each. And since it works well with both the MV50 Boutique and the Kat 50, I'm fairly confident I could use it with many different SS/non-tube amps with similar results.

 

[MilwMark]

Unfortunately the JC22 is one of the few amps I’ve tried that didn’t seem to like any dirt pedal.

And I’m not picky. But every dirt pedal I tried instantly made the amp sound like a kazoo. It is the first amp I’ve ever encountered that I concluded “didn’t take OD pedals well”. Previously I thought that was a myth.

ones I tried:

BD2
OD3
Nobels.
SD1
Rat
OD250
Sparkle Drive
Ceriatone Klone

Even the mighty DS1 which is my secret “solid state tuberizer”

It is a real shame they decided to leave the Distortion circuit out of the JC22.

Sorry I can’t be more helpful.

 

[mkdaws32]

Unfortunately the JC22 is one of the few amps I’ve tried that didn’t seem to like any dirt pedal.

And I’m not picky. But every dirt pedal I tried instantly made the amp sound like a kazoo. It is the first amp I’ve ever encountered that I concluded “didn’t take OD pedals well”. Previously I thought that was a myth.

ones I tried:

BD2
OD3
Nobels.
SD1
Rat
OD250
Sparkle Drive
Ceriatone Klone

Even the mighty DS1 which is my secret “solid state tuberizer”

It is a real shame they decided to leave the Distortion circuit out of the JC22.

Sorry I can’t be more helpful.

I can see a small SS amp not liking some of those, but if it didn't like a Sparkle Drive, Klon or BD2, that's not very encouraging

 

[cousinpaul]

Tube Screamers and Klon type pedals are most commonly used to push a tube amp into breakup. You might try something like a Joyo American Sound or one of the other amp-in-a-box pedals, which are designed to be used with a clean platform.

 

[MilwMark]

I can see a small SS amp not liking some of those, but if it didn't like a Sparkle Drive, Klon or BD2, that's not very encouraging

Yeah. It’s weird. My JC40 LOVES every OD I throw at it.

Any OD I put into the 22 was like an instant and extreme band pass filter. Kazoo. Not cocked wah exactly. But close. Didn’t seem to matter what the EQ of the OD was. Some of those I tried are VERY full frequency.

I wonder if @11 Gauge or some other techies might have an idea what could cause that in an amp?

 

[11 Gauge]

Unfortunately the JC22 is one of the few amps I’ve tried that didn’t seem to like any dirt pedal.

And I’m not picky. But every dirt pedal I tried instantly made the amp sound like a kazoo. It is the first amp I’ve ever encountered that I concluded “didn’t take OD pedals well”. Previously I thought that was a myth.

ones I tried:

BD2
OD3
Nobels.
SD1
Rat
OD250
Sparkle Drive
Ceriatone Klone

Even the mighty DS1 which is my secret “solid state tuberizer”

It is a real shame they decided to leave the Distortion circuit out of the JC22.

Sorry I can’t be more helpful.

So, I didn't know much particularly about the JC-22, so I went and looked it up. I see it has a pair of 6.5" speakers with aluminum dust caps, and I could see those being the reason for the kazoo sounds.

Eminence makes a 620H 6.5" speaker w/a hemp cone that would probably be great (or at least better than the factory Roland 6.5s) for OD, but at $60 a pop, it's probably throwing good money at bad. Also, it looks like the 620H is 4 ohms only - not sure if the speakers in the JC-22 might be 8 or 16 ohms.

...Other than the 620H, there might be other 6.5" guitar speakers, but they seem to be a lot less common.

 

[Nahtabot]

Try this one on a solid state.

 

[MilwMark]

Tube Screamers and Klon type pedals are most commonly used to push a tube amp into breakup. You might try something like a Joyo American Sound or one of the other amp-in-a-box pedals, which are designed to be used with a clean platform.

Interesting suggestion. I don’t have any of those amp in a box pedals. I wonder if it would make a difference? Worth trying.

 

[11 Gauge]

Yeah. It’s weird. My JC40 LOVES every OD I throw at it.

Any OD I put into the 22 was like an instant and extreme band pass filter. Kazoo. Not cocked wah exactly. But close. Didn’t seem to matter what the EQ of the OD was. Some of those I tried are VERY full frequency.

I wonder if @11 Gauge or some other techies might have an idea what could cause that in an amp?

I'm putting my money on it being the factory 6.5" speakers. Someone was unloading a pair of them on Reverb, saying that they lacked low end. And I'd think the aluminum dust caps probably (over-)emphasize treble.

Also, they're 8 ohm speakers, with a stereo amp. That means you'd have to replace them with 8 ohm speakers, and IDK if it makes financial sense to go down that rabbit hole.

 

[schenkadere]

Unfortunately the JC22 is one of the few amps I’ve tried that didn’t seem to like any dirt pedal.

And I’m not picky. But every dirt pedal I tried instantly made the amp sound like a kazoo. It is the first amp I’ve ever encountered that I concluded “didn’t take OD pedals well”. Previously I thought that was a myth.

ones I tried:

BD2
OD3
Nobels.
SD1
Rat
OD250
Sparkle Drive
Ceriatone Klone

Even the mighty DS1 which is my secret “solid state tuberizer”

It is a real shame they decided to leave the Distortion circuit out of the JC22.

Sorry I can’t be more helpful.

I'm very picky, but I don't have a ton of dough to lay out to experiment, so I figured I'd ask for suggestions. I really don't want to fall into the OD/Dist rabbit hole again. I will say that the Marshall style distortion sounds a whole lot better than the break up form the TS style OD.

I agree with what you say about the qualities of the tone with dirt pedals. Definitely odd. I can definitely see an amp in the box as possibly being a better solution. I'm not disappointed they left the distortion circuit out. I never heard an impressive tone from that circuit from the JC's I've played over the years. Unless they've improved it dramatically, I'd probably never use it.

 

[schenkadere]

I'm putting my money on it being the factory 6.5" speakers. Someone was unloading a pair of them on Reverb, saying that they lacked low end. And I'd think the aluminum dust caps probably (over-)emphasize treble.

Also, they're 8 ohm speakers, with a stereo amp. That means you'd have to replace them with 8 ohm speakers, and IDK if it makes financial sense to go down that rabbit hole.

I'm going to guess you're on the money here. I have no intention of changing the speakers since it sounds wonderful as is. I bought it for cleans, so if I can't find a dirt solution, it's not the end of the world.

 

[MilwMark]

@11 Gauge - would the speakers differ dramatically clean versus dirty? The clean sounds from the amp are wonderful, deep, shimmery, full frequency. Any OD - boom - band pass/kazoo effect.

@schenkadere - the JC120 distortion circuit is an “acquired taste” at best IMO. The JC77 circuit is great and the JC40 even better. That’s why I’m bummed they left it out of the 22.

Though now I’m wondering if that was intentional ...

 

[schenkadere]

Honestly...even my Mooer Yellow Comp doesn't sound good with it. Not that it NEEDS anything, it's a great sounding amp as is. I'm cool with guitar>cable>amp for this one. Maybe I'll invest in a footswtich for the reverb and chorus.

I haven't used dirt pedals since I got my little Randall Diavlo which is as close to the dirt tone in my head as I've found, but it's a single channel and I like my cleans clean. I figured I could maybe get somewhere in the ballpark for the JC.

 

[schenkadere]

@11 Gauge - would the speakers differ dramatically clean versus dirty? The clean sounds from the amp are wonderful, deep, shimmery, full frequency. Any OD - boom - band pass/kazoo effect.

@schenkadere - the JC120 distortion circuit is an “acquired taste” at best IMO. The JC77 circuit is great and the JC40 even better. That’s why I’m bummed they left it out of the 22.

Though now I’m wondering if that was intentional ...

IDK...It sounds like the typical old school cheap SS amp distortion to me,lol. Like my old 80's Gorilla amp, lol. I guess it is an acquired taste.

The 40 being a newer model, maybe they redesigned and improved the distortion circuit. I listened to some demos and it's definitely not my cup of tea.

 

[11 Gauge]

@11 Gauge - would the speakers differ dramatically clean versus dirty? The clean sounds from the amp are wonderful, deep, shimmery, full frequency. Any OD - boom - band pass/kazoo effect.

IME, there are speakers that sound great clean, but I can't stand them dirty.

I have a Weber California 10 ceramic that I bought back in the late 90's. It is utterly fantastic for clean stuff, and that's the reason I still have it, but add any OD from any source - pedal or amp itself, and the clipped harmonics seem to get overemphasized incorrectly. I got that speaker with the aluminum dust cap, and have heard that the paper/felt dust cap option would have made it a little more usable for OD/dist.

I got a Celestion BN12-300S 12" bass neo speaker about 3 years ago, to use with my Quilter 101 Mini, based on Quilter offering that speaker as a heavy duty option for some of their combos and cabs. It is perhaps the best speaker I've experienced for cleans with that amp, especially when set to its 'surf' voicing. But add any OD - from either the amp or pedals, and IMO it's a deal breaker. I fought to try and get just a generally okay OD sound with that setup, with no luck.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 6.5s in the JC-22 are actually less like guitar amp-specific speakers, and possibly more like keyboard amp or P.A.-like speakers (or in studio monitors). The 6.5" isn't a common guitar amp speaker size (at least IME).

 

[Chiogtr4x]

Tube Screamers and Klon type pedals are most commonly used to push a tube amp into breakup. You might try something like a Joyo American Sound or one of the other amp-in-a-box pedals, which are designed to be used with a clean platform.

I'm actually doing exactly this with a SS Fender Frontman 25R
I use the American Sound to make the amp EQ warm up with some mids ( the pedal is always ON, at low Drive).and then kick on a Tube Screamer type

* I can actually do similar, using just a Bad Monkey OD using its Mixer OUT jack into the amp

Even with pedal OFF the amp emulator is working to help clean tone, then kick it ON for OD

( active Low and High EQ when ON, and nice gradual Gain knob)

 

[schenkadere]

I'm actually doing exactly this with a SS Fender Frontman 25R
I use the American Sound to make the amp EQ warm up with some mids ( the pedal is always ON, at low Drive).and then kick on a Tube Screamer type

* I can actually do similar, using just a Bad Monkey OD using its Mixer OUT jack into the amp

Even with pedal OFF the amp emulator is working to help clean tone, then kick it ON for OD

( active Low and High EQ when ON, and nice gradual Gain knob)

My gut tells me the speakers are the limitation. Essentially it will behave just like a dirt pedal with the speakers. The cleans are on the money as is. Exactly what I want and what I expected.