12” Speaker for 5F11

[High Head Brad]

I’ve got a 5F11 clone with a Weber 12A125 which I’m finding to be a little bright. Any recommendations for a replacement? Options are a bit limited in Australia and I’d prefer top avoid shipping from the states currently as it is painfully slow (this rules out Weber).

So far I’ve been able to find a few Eminence models, limited selection of Celestion (Blue and Ruby but very pricey) and WGS.

 

[dan40]

The Eminence GA-SC 64 is a very well liked speaker for most Fender circuits. There are quite a few threads here and elsewhere that give high praise to this speaker.

 

[clydethecat]

Celestion G12H30 Anniversary is one I'd describe as "warm but articulate".

 

[High Head Brad]

The Eminence GA-SC 64 is a very well liked speaker for most Fender circuits. There are quite a few threads here and elsewhere that give high praise to this speaker.

Celestion G12H30 Anniversary is one I'd describe as "warm but articulate".

Thanks. Both of these are available locally so that is encouraging. I will add these to the short list

 

[Jsnwhite619]

I've built 2 and used a Cannabis Rex in both. I haven't branched out and tried many other 12" speakers with it, but I never felt like I needed to.





And here is a C-Rex with a Pro Jr and bigger Deluxe sized cabinet, just for something extra to listen to with the C-Rex.

 

[Dacious]

You're fighting the inherent characteristics of the amp. A 5F11 is a 5D3 with Tremolo. It also has negative feedback - you could try unshipping that to get a bit more Tweedy/middy response first.

The SC64 10" I have in my Superchamp (right place right time $100 deal in Melbourne) is great from the sounds. Lower wattage, smaller voicecoil and magnet is always going to be a winner.

The G12H might get you we where you want but they're a bit woody.

 

[Jsnwhite619]

I wouldn't go higher than 68k or so on the NFB. I tried 100k and it was the absolute highest I could stand without painful treble and top end. If it's already too bright setup stock NFB, going much higher than that will probably make the issue worse.

If you really like the tremolo, a bass-heavy speaker will help it. I ran some test signals through mine one day, and I can't remember where the cutoff was, but as some point that was still well within the usable range of the speaker, the tremolo just doesn't affect anything.

 

[High Head Brad]

I've built 2 and used a Cannabis Rex in both. I haven't branched out and tried many other 12" speakers with it, but I never felt like I needed to.





And here is a C-Rex with a Pro Jr and bigger Deluxe sized cabinet, just for something extra to listen to with the C-Rex.

Thanks Jason, I was hoping you would chime in. I will listen to those clips. The Cannabis Rex is available and was already on my short list (based on my feint recollection that you were a fan).

 

[High Head Brad]

You're fighting the inherent characteristics of the amp. A 5F11 is a 5D3 with Tremolo. It also has negative feedback - you could try unshipping that to get a bit more Tweedy/middy response first.

The SC64 10" I have in my Superchamp (right place right time $100 deal in Melbourne) is great from the sounds. Lower wattage, smaller voicecoil and magnet is always going to be a winner.

The G12H might get you we where you want but they're a bit woody.

I wouldn't go higher than 68k or so on the NFB. I tried 100k and it was the absolute highest I could stand without painful treble and top end. If it's already too bright setup stock NFB, going much higher than that will probably make the issue worse.

If you really like the tremolo, a bass-heavy speaker will help it. I ran some test signals through mine one day, and I can't remember where the cutoff was, but as some point that was still well within the usable range of the speaker, the tremolo just doesn't affect anything.

What is involved in adjusting the NFB? Is this something I should really explore?

@Dacious why do you think that changing the speaker is fighting the amps qualities? If I can tame the high's a little it will be even better for my taste

 

[Dacious]

What is involved in adjusting the NFB? Is this something I should really explore?

@Dacious why do you think that changing the speaker is fighting the amps qualities? If I can tame the high's a little it will be even better for my taste

I should have asked - are you using the tone control? It's a treble cut on these amps, so winding it back towards zero should make the amp less trebly. Also, is the speaker new? If it's spankers, it's going to sound a little bright and harsh and needs to be played a good few dozen hours to loosen up and smooth out. Be aware, this type of tone circuit is in some ways like a second volume control. If you play with it dimed and volume dimed, it can tend to overpowering treble. It's like Marshalls, as channel gain (volume) goes up, often treble must come down.

If neither of the above are true, plow on.

OK - NFB is used by Fender in this design and others to 'tame' the signal and smooth the amp out, because it's selling feature was the tremolo. This amp also has fixed bias using a negative voltage for the grid because this oscillator wiggles the signal coming onto grids. Those two things tend to reduce mids and harmonics - they're why later brown, blonde and BF/SF amps aren't as raw and blatty than 5F1 and 5E3. The 5F11 is sorta like a halfway house between Tweeds and later amps. So it's a bit brighter and sparklier than say a Tweed Deluxe, which is a hairy little monster. It's got some attitude but isn't like the friend who makes everyone uncomfortable because you don't know what gonzo thing he'll do next (5E3).

This resistor on the lead coming from the speaker centre tip feeds signal back into the phase inverter to counter some of the rambanctious nature of these amps. You can play with the value, or put it on a switch or replace with a pot (which is what a presence control is).

This is a good vid showing the difference although note this is a 5E3 which has a cathode biasing scheme. Your amp is most analogous to the third setting, 56k negative feedback resistor.




if you're looking to sell the Weber, flick it my way - I'm looking to build a 5F11 with a bare Deluxe cab and chassis I just got hold of.

Rob Robinette is a user on this site, and his 5E3 page has mod details for this.

https://robrobinette.com/5e3_Modifications.htm#Switched_Negative_Feedback

 

[High Head Brad]

I should have asked - are you using the tone control? It's a treble cut on these amps, so winding it back towards zero should make the amp less trebly. Also, is the speaker new? If it's spankers, it's going to sound a little bright and harsh and needs to be played a good few dozen hours to loosen up and smooth out. Be aware, this type of tone circuit is in some ways like a second volume control. If you play with it dimed and volume dimed, it can tend to overpowering treble. It's like Marshalls, as channel gain (volume) goes up, often treble must come down.

If neither of the above are true, plow on.

OK - NFB is used by Fender in this design and others to 'tame' the signal and smooth the amp out, because it's selling feature was the tremolo. This amp also has fixed bias using a negative voltage for the grid because this oscillator wiggles the signal coming onto grids. Those two things tend to reduce mids and harmonics - they're why later brown, blonde and BF/SF amps aren't as raw and blatty than 5F1 and 5E3. The 5F11 is sorta like a halfway house between Tweeds and later amps. So it's a bit brighter and sparklier than say a Tweed Deluxe, which is a hairy little monster. It's got some attitude but isn't like the friend who makes everyone uncomfortable because you don't know what gonzo thing he'll do next.

View attachment 774753

This resistor on the lead coming from the speaker centre tip feeds signal back into the phase inverter to counter some of the rambanctious nature of these amps. You can play with the value, or put it on a switch or replace with a pot (which is what a presence control is).

This is a good vid showing the difference. Your amp is most analogous to the third setting, 56k negative feedback resistor.




if you're looking to sell the Weber, flick it my way - I'm looking to build a 5E3 with a bare Deluxe cab and chassis I just got hold of.

Rob Robinette is a user on this site, and his 5E3 page has mod details for this.

https://robrobinette.com/5e3_Modifications.htm#Switched_Negative_Feedback

Thanks for the info.

The speaker and amp are a few months old now and have been well played so I feel like the speaker should have broken in by now. I might give it a little longer to be sure. I have trialed many different tone settings. When I roll the tone off it gets a bit too dark. Its not so much that the amp is too 'trebley', its more that the top end is a bit harsh too me (for want of a better explanation) and only when I set my guitars volume to 10 (in particular with humbuckers and P90's).

 

[Dacious]

Thanks for the info.

The speaker and amp are a few months old now and have been well played so I feel like the speaker should have broken in by now. I might give it a little longer to be sure. I have trialed many different tone settings. When I roll the tone off it gets a bit too dark. Its not so much that the amp is too 'trebley', its more that the top end is a bit harsh too me (for want of a better explanation) and only when I set my guitars volume to 10 (in particular with humbuckers and P90's).

It might be worth getting a 5751 and swapping it in the first posi. It could be adjusted, but if you're looking for comparatively more mids a NFB might get you there. Try clipping it and see what you get. Might save you $150.

 

[Wally]

You're fighting the inherent characteristics of the amp. A 5F11 is a 5D3 with Tremolo. It also has negative feedback - you could try unshipping that to get a bit more Tweedy/middy response first.

The SC64 10" I have in my Superchamp (right place right time $100 deal in Melbourne) is great from the sounds. Lower wattage, smaller voicecoil and magnet is always going to be a winner.

The G12H might get you we where you want but they're a bit woody.

Dacious, I have to observe that the 5F11 is not a 5D3 with trem and a negative feedback circuit. The 5D3 has a paraphrase inverter versus the cathodyne in the 5F11, and the 5D3 has cathode bias versus the fixed bias of the 5F11.
In fact, the 5F11 was a step into a new age for Leo, and it is the basis for all of the Princeton amps that followed...all the way to the
Super .champs that you and I so enjoy.
High Head Brad, if you have access to an Eminence Legend GB128, you might like that in your amp. Very good speaker for low bucks....big firm low end, sparkly high end that does not get harsh with overdrive, and an overall warm, woody tone.
As for the Weber, when someone talks about a Weber I immediately wonder what options were ordered. Also, what are your voltages and the biasing numbers?

 

[dankilling]

I'm a fan of the WGS ET65 speakers for brittle tweed circuits.

 

[Jsnwhite619]

It might be worth getting a 5751 and swapping it in the first posi. It could be adjusted, but if you're looking for comparatively more mids a NFB might get you there. Try clipping it and see what you get. Might save you $150.

It might not work. I know a 12ay7 - at least the ones I tried - wouldn't power the tremolo on mine. Had to be a 12 ax7

 

[zook]

A 5F11 is a 5D3 with Tremolo. I.

Dacious, a 5F11 is a 5F10 Harvard with Tremolo. A 5D3 is a very different animal.

 

[uriah1]

The WGS ET65 stays warms too , not too bright.

 

[schmee]

Emi GA SC64 without a doubt!

 

[Bob Arbogast]

This might be helpful:

https://www.tdpri.com/threads/thoughts-on-the-eminence-tf-1250-and-the-ga-sc64.1051651/

 

[High Head Brad]

Anyone tried a Jensen P12Q in a 5F11?