Zappa

Discussion in 'Music to Your Ears' started by Tarkus60, Oct 13, 2021.

  1. bcorig

    bcorig Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    3,869
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2018
    Location:
    Lost in the 909 trying to find my way home
    I like Zappa and don’t share your views on Overnight Sensation but agree with you about Apostrophe. You make good points, though.
     
  2. dogmeat

    dogmeat Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    70
    Posts:
    3,144
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Location:
    Alaska
    yeah well.... I was only in it for the money
     
    archetype likes this.
  3. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Posts:
    17,579
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Location:
    Iowa City, IA
    I totally forgot about Overnight Sensation, which is a great record all around. In fact, my band at the time, Straight Arrow, tried playing songs from it, but I don't recall if any of those went beyond the rehearsal room.
     
    bcorig, Digital Larry and Greggorios like this.
  4. eclecticsynergy

    eclecticsynergy Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,721
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Location:
    Albany NY
    I was hooked as soon as Live At The Fillmore came out, and followed as his material got more musically sophisticated.

    My favorite period is Grand Wazoo / Over-Nite Sensation / Apostrophe / One Size Fits All.
     
    Digital Larry likes this.
  5. Tonemaster

    Tonemaster Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,159
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Location:
    Ontario
  6. hepular

    hepular Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,192
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2019
    Location:
    abilene, tx
    the problem with Mr. Zappa is that ultimately, his 'artistic' vision was inhuman.

    judging by his compositions and interviews, he lacked sympathy for fundamental human emotions and problems (& wa generally a d**k to most women & most of the musicians who played for him). his 'music' followed suit: to the point that by the end of his life he was composing pieces for computer, in the belief that the realization of music by mere humans was a somewhat pointless pursuit.

    but "he referenced such and such great composers or whatever" or "he was a great satirist" nah, way too often he was punching down at easy targets which just helps his audience feel superior. And, most problematically for me, i don't really care who he references, or how many nested tuplets he can (with ever increasing levels of sloppiness) slam into a bar: it just doesn't sound fun to me.
     
  7. thunderbyrd

    thunderbyrd Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Age:
    62
    Posts:
    8,033
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Location:
    central ky
    i get what you are saying and i have thought the same sort of things about zappa. however, i have long thought that "Joe's Garage" was something where he's (at least parts of it) expressing something a bit more sincere, an honest sadness at how the music world chews up and spits out.

    but i don't think JG is considered a major work.
     
    hepular likes this.
  8. Boreas

    Boreas Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    66
    Posts:
    6,202
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2019
    Location:
    Adirondack Coast, NY
    For people who do not like or appreciate his lyrics, Grand Wazoo and other albums from that period really demonstrate his orchestral genius. He isn't trying to say anything - just crafting music. He wasn't all about satire - he did it for the music. It was VERY expensive to get an orchestra into a studio and he lost money in almost every venture, but he did it to get the music out of his head - whether he had an audience for it or not.
     
  9. Cheap Trills

    Cheap Trills Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,089
    Joined:
    May 11, 2016
    Location:
    NJ
    I don't understand this comment. Are you trying to be ironic?
     
    Jerry J likes this.
  10. Cheap Trills

    Cheap Trills Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,089
    Joined:
    May 11, 2016
    Location:
    NJ
    I've tried to get into Zappa because I know some people love his music, so I assume there must be something there. Just listened to this, maybe I'll try again next year.
     
    Boreas likes this.
  11. tanplastic

    tanplastic Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,963
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Location:
    I can see your house from here.
    For his orchestral work, try these: (If you listen to nothing else, go to 4:24 of the first piece and hear the power of unison playing and great riff writing)


    Keep in mind, these were composed on the bus, entirely out of his head.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
  12. Boreas

    Boreas Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    66
    Posts:
    6,202
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2019
    Location:
    Adirondack Coast, NY
    Don't force yourself to like or appreciate it. Not everyone gets the Grateful Dead, jazz, or some "modern" composers. It will come to you or it won't. The Earth keeps turning.
     
    Tonemaster, Ron R, kafka and 3 others like this.
  13. otterhound

    otterhound Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,272
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Location:
    Manheim Pa.
    Billy was a mountain .
     
    mrbdxmpl, Jerry J, Tarkus60 and 4 others like this.
  14. 421JAM

    421JAM Tele-Holic

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    854
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2020
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    JG is definitely considered a major work in The Zappa catalog. It encapsulates pretty much everything Zappa had to offer.

    I listened to it all the way through recently for the first time in a long time. Much of the lyrical content was cringe inducing, but I suppose that is characteristic of much of his work.
     
    Boreas and Happy Enchilada like this.
  15. Texicaster

    Texicaster Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    2,826
    Joined:
    May 9, 2018
    Location:
    It Varies.....
    Frank suffered from being the smartest guy in the room...by far...in his mind anyways....

    No question his musical talents were once in a generation but his song crafting just sophomoric at best.

    I was/am a big fan of most of his work through One Size Fits All but the operas were too much for me. I saw him in 1977 and is was one of the best shows I ever saw. Zoot Allures tour.

    Interestingly, in 1984 he shared a bill with Jerry Garcia Band! Woulda been cool to see them play together BUT Garcia's roadies got Zappa's roadies high (a cardinal sin to Zappa) and Frank copped an attitude and they didn't share the stage....who knows how that would have come out!
     
  16. Happy Enchilada

    Happy Enchilada Tele-Afflicted Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    1,623
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2021
    Location:
    Spudville
    See below.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
  17. studio1087

    studio1087 Telefied Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    25,666
    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Location:
    Near Milwaukee
    Great stuff.
     
  18. Happy Enchilada

    Happy Enchilada Tele-Afflicted Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    1,623
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2021
    Location:
    Spudville

    "Joe's Garage" was indeed a "major work." It addressed, among other things, a future where music and other forms of artistic expression would be censored and regulated by the state. This is happening in China, North Korea, and most recently in Afghanistan - where ALL music is banned, even religious music. And as musicians, we better watch out for this here in the good ol' US of A as well.

    "Joe's Garage" functions on many levels - as entertainment, satire, and as a cautionary tale. That's the thing about genius - it is misunderstood by the masses who are content to eat, sleep, rut, and die. He was more concerned with ideas than making trendy dance tunes to serve as background music for teenage mating rituals. And the last thing on his list was being popular with the in crowd, which kept him objective and fresh and kept an edge on his work that stands the test of time.

    In a world where the Beach Boys are topping the charts, it's small wonder Zappa wasn't fully appreciated in his own time.
     
    Tonemaster, trev333 and Boreas like this.
  19. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    16,168
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    The Far-Flung Isles of Langerhans
    Ethel was a tree growing off of his shoulder


    (It's like a reflex, ya can't help it)
     
  20. Ron R

    Ron R Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Age:
    55
    Posts:
    4,807
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2016
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    I just watched the Roxy show a couple weeks back. And I'm close to finishing The Real Frank Zappa, which is an excellent read and also offers some insight into Frank's motivations (for example, he explains why he often writes "nonsense" lyrics.
     
    Happy Enchilada and mr natural like this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.