Young people dropping out - after college

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Big_Bend, Sep 6, 2021.

  1. Hpilotman

    Hpilotman Tele-Holic

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    I bet it was more stressful for the guy who wound up with a M16 in his hand in Vietnam on his 18th Birthday courtesy of a written invitation from Uncle Sam.
    I'm very thankful it was not me but do have compassion for those folks who were treated like crap upon returning and were suffering from PTSD.
     
  2. Happy Enchilada

    Happy Enchilada Tele-Holic

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    Don't feel like the Lone Ranger - this is the OTHER pandemic. Problem is there's no vaccine ...

    I had a small computer desk that got replaced and I wanted to donate the old one. Had to go to three nonprofit thrift store places before I could find one that actually had staff working to take in donations.

    Tried to get a breakfast burrito the other day - had to go to four fast food places because despite offering ridiculously high hourly wages, the places were "temporarily closed" because there weren't enough people willing to roll out of bed and go to work.

    Seems like today's employers are offering about three times the $$$ per hour I got paid when I was a teenager and working my way through college - you'd think they'd have the OPPOSITE problem of TOO MANY applicants. My own youngest is loading trucks for FedEx on the graveyard shift and pulling down almost $20 an hour.
     
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  3. loopfinding

    loopfinding Friend of Leo's

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    to be fair i think you're talking more about a problem with grade inflation and i can agree that’s a problem. and that's largely a result of my parents’ gen putting so much pressure on the school or teachers. hell to pay if little jimmy doesn’t get into a good school.

    all of the older folks with only HS diplomas i've worked with are no dumber or smarter, or more well educated than people my age who are in the same boat. they can do arithmetic a little faster and have nicer handwriting...big whoop. they still believe in pseudoscience, don’t know wtf calculus even is, and don’t know who smith or marx are unless the TV tells them who’s the scarier one.

    US education has always sucked. it's just in the past, people who understood the material 75% of the way could take a C and it wasn't the end of the world. when my father came from “third world” Argentina in the 60s, he skipped a grade - in catholic school, no less - and he isn’t a genius by any means.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
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  4. David C

    David C Tele-Meister

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    Well, I just retired after 42 years of working a career in technical sales. I can tell you that for some jobs, such as sales, there is no loyalty towards the sales people by employers. So job hopping and turnover is very high in that career path.
    As far as being loyal towards an employer, that is no longer worth worrying about as far as I'm concerned. I can't tell you how many people I have known that were not getting raises year after year and left the company to make more money. Or the reverse, someone is hired in at a higher pay level than others around them, but doing the same type of work.
    So, forget employer loyalty, you have a job and it is best to treat it like that. If another team wants to pay more, go for it.
     
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  5. Old Deaf Roadie

    Old Deaf Roadie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I served in the military because I was too wild for college and certainly would have been a waste of instructor time and disruptive in class. The wrath of an angry Chief Petty Officer or two was just the babysitter I needed. And it worked.
     
  6. Sax-son

    Sax-son Tele-Afflicted

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    I agree! I can't tell you how many of my friends were loyal to a company for years only to later find it bought out by another company and then downsized because the company that bought them out pillaged all the assets and the had one less competitor. It's dog eat dog out there and everyman for themselves. Loyalty to an employer? ****em!
     
  7. tomasz

    tomasz Tele-Meister

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    I think, it's the usual turn of the world.. this time it hits the companies from a different angle though. Young people just want a different approach to work and jobs, they don't want to do 24/7, nor are they appreciating careers as the main pillar of their lives. They want balance, being recognised as humans, acceptance for what they can contribute. They don't want to be dragged through the fake cascades of a corporation, just to have a career. They live now and want to celebrate this.

    Companies on the other hand are scared and recognize, they need to change, or they will end up without workforce, but they don't know how to proceed. They cannot embrace a youngster appearing on a job interview with a friend or a puppy and claiming he or she wants to do part time plus, he or she values his/hers development more than company values. It's just different times, and old companies will collapse or die off if they cannot adopt to this. On the other hand the young people have a tremendous energy and once the are engaged, they could push mountains, through channels old companies never dreamed of..

    It's interesting times we live in, where a whole generation just rebels against the rules in a different way. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for them :)
     
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  8. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    I'm not sure I agree with the ideology of the above, I think it would be very beneficial for a lot of young adults but not for all. But the biggest issue I can see is that there are 3+ million new 18 year olds every year that the government would have to employ and pay.
     
  9. Bob M

    Bob M Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I’ve been reading these responses for a while and am trying to digest the opinions and situations that have been put forth. I have 3 adult children. Ages 34 through 42. All own houses in the Boston area and are earning 6 figures. I paid for much of their college but made sure that they were given a portion of the debt so they could feel some of the pain. I made sure that growing up that they had part time jobs at age 14. They are not afraid to work. They also are fiercely independent and would look at help from me as a sign of failure. They all left the family home at 18-20 years old and have not remotely considered moving back.

    I have difficulty with student loan debt being forgiven. Didn’t folks understand what they were signing up for? 2 of my kids went to state schools to save tuition money. They have good jobs that they found and through hard work got promoted. At the same age I was making 15k which was a good salary at the time. I bought a Toyota Corolla new for $1700. I don’t think you can compare eras easily. I thought things were outrageously expensive back then. I have no real advice except that in this country you can still make your way. I’ve seen it too many times to doubt it.

    That’s all I have. Fascinating thread.
     
  10. David C

    David C Tele-Meister

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    The last ten years of my working career were spent at one job. I had the same desk, but worked for three different companies during that time. I was too close to the end of working to move on, but if I had ten years left I would have moved on to another company. You can reach a place where you are too far in to change, however. It's a lot different when you have 24 to 30 months left in your career, you just smile and go on with your work. You aren't going to impact anything anyway.
     
  11. imwjl

    imwjl Doctor of Teleocity

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    There are no dates or age here to know if inflation means your being paid 1/3 less matches up. My last air freight work was late 1989 as I moved to my tech career. It reads like wages haven't changed much for where you child is.

    It may change again but unemployment has been a lot lower lately and lots of places are in their long-term natural unemployment low ranges. How do you get too many applicants when that's going on?

    Where I work in an infrastructure director/leader spot I know some of these labor issues and think you might be simplifying things. We have cafes and deli operations. Even with everyone sustaining higher wages there are waves of issues making it hard to keep business going. Very often some sickness and contact tracing gets a few to 10+ associates off the job. There are product shortages in addition to labor shortages.

    The pundits choose pet topics buy we get matters like a lack of product and packaging putting stress on keeping things open too.

    Even with our paying about 15% more across the board there are problems that create labor shortages. It's so competitive that we also need better people and that might apply all over.

    Closer to topic, this is an area - the labor shortages and customer demands - where our having more and more people with more education helps. Overall, the college grad managers are far more versatile than how we staffed in times past.
     
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  12. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    Awareness has definitely increased, as well as stigma about mental illness being far less in the rising generation.

    That said, NOWHERE on the planet is more in tune and actively engaged with resources to educate and treat mental illness than universities. Period. They have a vested interest in keeping their students alive and well. And the vast majority of mental health research and training happens at universities. Their counseling clinics are leaders in up-to-date practices. As difficult as college can be for many kids, they often have resources immediately available to support them emotionally, mentally, and physically.

    Universities have exploded in their financial costs passed on to students. But some of those expenses are worth it.
     
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  13. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    Baloney. I'm sure the franchise owners who never had any plans to come into work at 3am every day to make doughnuts want to use that as an excuse. Easier than offering higher pay in a sudden labor shortage.

    Sorry, I'm not buying it. Doughnuts and coffee are always in demand. Except maybe during a pandemic. When many folks have stopped commuting, and with it their morning routine of picking up coffee and doughnuts. While at the same time others decided working for crap pay during a pandemic was no longer worth it. Particularly those who have kids who suddenly weren't able to go to school.

    Doughnut and coffee shops need minimal staff to operate. It's not workers' fault the world changed.

    N=1 is not a pattern.
     
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  14. buster poser

    buster poser Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    The idea that US minimum wage is too high is idiotic. At the federal level It has literally been the same for 12 years. And it’s less than half of this mythical $15/hr which exists only in DC (it’s $14 in California).

    “Get a better job” is what people have been telling low wage earners in crappy service jobs for years. Well, I guess they did. Good luck with your dollar burrito.

    https://www.epi.org/minimum-wage-tracker/#/min_wage/Washington
     
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  15. SixStringSlinger

    SixStringSlinger Friend of Leo's

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    The irony of saying "this job must be done" (as implied by one's using the product/service it provides) while simultaneously saying "Doing this job should not buy you anything resembling a life".
     
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  16. Drew617

    Drew617 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    The economy where I grew up, 600 miles from here, has been unhealthy since I was a kid. I've stayed close to a bunch of people there but it's always been difficult to relate anything financial. Employment, dollar amounts, and perspectives can be worlds apart. A lot of the sentiment I hear seems almost self-defeating, but it's not me trying to survive and retire in adverse conditions, so what do I know. Not worth the potential insult for me to pull an "actually, we're approaching full employment..." They aren't, and I still remember working there, suspecting I may already already had the best job I could ever hope to get, and that it felt paralyzing.

    At the moment we're affected by labor shortages where I live and operate. I tend to hire young professionals, recent grads, in the high 5-figures, with average benefits for the sector and market, which are objectively very good. Qualified candidates have become about 25% more expensive in the past year. In general, we've met higher salary asks. Insisting that labor doesn't (or "shouldn't") cost more hasn't worked out. I've been tempted to jump and make a grab for myself, although my situation works really well at the moment for reasons unrelated to comp.

    The Dunks in front of my office has also been broken for a while. This strikes me as a Dunks problem, not a workforce problem or any sort of ethic or generational problem. Why should anyone work there for $12 or $20 if they don't absolutely have to?
     
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  17. buster poser

    buster poser Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    This. Or more objectively "...you should earn less than what is necessary to make rent anywhere in the country because I refuse to pay more than $4.00 for Dunko's coffee and a bagel."

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/14/ful...kers-cant-afford-rent-anywhere-in-the-us.html

    People working minimum wage jobs full-time cannot afford a two-bedroom apartment in any state in the country, the National Low Income Housing Coalition’s annual “Out of Reach” report finds. In 93% of U.S. counties, the same workers can’t afford a modest one-bedroom.
     
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  18. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    I still say baloney to the companies complaining of not being able to find staff. Retail and low level chain food service seem to be the biggest and loudest complainers.

    Both of my kids struggled to find simple retail jobs for the summer. Ages 18 and 19. They eventually did. But they had to be creative about how to earn and save some dough during the periods they weren't employed.

    It just seemed pretty weird that every place that had help wanted signs (pretty much every place nowadays) weren't hiring them. They are bright kids with no baggage. They can breathe on their own, don't have drug problems, and smell ok. I'm not joking when I say that this puts them ahead of a large portion of the population here.

    Competing with older workers who aren't planning on going back to college at the end of the summer? Probably a big part of it. This area is primarily blue collar. But that still doesn't explain why the same places still have help wanted signs.

    Training an issue? More and more big chain stores require a certain amount of formal training before employees hit the floor. Not a bad thing, by any means. But I'm sure it ain't cheap, and requires quite a bit of organizational investment in a potential employee. My daughter applied for Target (who several friends of hers had jobs there, and told her to apply). By the time they finally got back to her, they made it clear she had to commit to 8 or so weeks of training. This was mid summer. She wasn't going to be in town long enough. And they weren't interested in any options of transferring stores, changing to seasonal, etc...

    Location? A not insignificant side note is that among the friends who did get jobs there, the ones in college were at the local university, which of course gave them more flexibility after summer.

    She did get a seasonal type position at another retailer that worked out fairly well, though she did have to be circumspect about plans to move back to college. She used the rest of the summer to do odd jobs and take summer courses to boost her GPA and get her scholarships back. Last year was a hard year for most college students. She didn't make tons of dough, but she did work to reduce her financial load in creative ways. Things could have been far worse.

    My kids were willing to work. And every place in town had help wanted signs.

    My longwinded point? Places complaining about low staff are not telling the rest of the story. Increasing wages is only a band aid. There is still a race to the bottom, temporarily shunted by the pandemic.
     
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  19. SixStringSlinger

    SixStringSlinger Friend of Leo's

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    Shoot, I can't afford a single bedroom apartment by myself if I also expect to eat, not to mention do anything in life beyond mere survival. And that's working a full-time job in a professional setting that, if it's not done (or if I screw up that bad) will cost us our not getting paid for the service we provide, violations of federal law, the business' accreditation, and various people's professional licenses and careers.

    It's not that there isn't anything better out there (there is) or that I can't do anything to get myself there (I can and am, and I will get there). It's the indignity my job somehow being necessary and subject to high and rigorous standards, yet none of those being my ability afford a life on my own do this supposedly necessary work.

    A person should show up to a full-time job and work hard at it, and as a result afford their own life, with anything above and beyond that being optional and subject to one's own goals and desires.
     
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  20. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    Nor can they pay for childcare. Not an insignificant problem during a pandemic.
     
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