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You think scales are going to gte you through? Ha!

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by Telenator, Nov 26, 2020.

  1. Telenator

    Telenator Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    To me, this performance is mind blowing and makes a great example of what playing musical ideas is about. The expressions Guthrie Goven makes in this short track are really cool and make a great case for moving away from a Scale Approach to soloing.

    The pentatonic minor ain't gonna get ya home on this one!

     
  2. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Govan is a freaking alien!


    Scales certainly didn't help this guy when I was out on the bay:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Mjark

    Mjark Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    How do you not use scales? Govan certainly is.
     
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  4. superjam144

    superjam144 Tele-Afflicted

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    Yeah that's minor pentatonic too.
     
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  5. SRHmusic

    SRHmusic Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    True. It's how he uses the scales, as part of the approaches he takes, rather than just 'playing in one scale ... because...'
     
  6. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I’m not a scale guy.

    And solo guitar is not my thing, so I only listened to maybe 45s.

    But a lot it sounded pentatonic to me.
     
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  7. Hpilotman

    Hpilotman Tele-Meister

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    I've been down this road before. Most popular music in the U.S. comes from the 12 note Chromatic scale and Excerpts from that scale.

    Yep we can play a 1/4 tone by a slight bend but the 12 notes on the guitar are still part of the Chromatic scale. [1/2 step each]
    Can't completely get away from scales even if you are not thinking scales while soloing.
     
  8. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    More advice.

     
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  9. Flaneur

    Flaneur Friend of Leo's

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    I had never realised, that Mr Govan was a Zappa aficionado......

    :cool:
     
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  10. beanluc

    beanluc Tele-Holic

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    1:50 he looks so impressed with himself.
     
  11. Telenator

    Telenator Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    It's not. There is no way you could play what he does on the solo using the minor pentatonic.

    The beauty in what he's playing is that he's taking a mix of major, minor, diminished, and dominant ideas and stringing them together at times using half-tones to join them.

    He's not playing a scale approach. He's taking some crazy good expressions and in many cases, brilliantly joining them together from one idea to the next.

    You don't learn to play like that using scales in a linear approach. You have to stop playing the scale, and make the expression. Then tie the expressions together with half-tones, passing notes and other ideas that set you up to land right, or grab the uptake on the next change or expression. It's a completely different headspace.

    I couldn't tell the difference until I had a very good teacher who broke it down for me in a way I could understand it.

    I just think it's a really cool video showing amazing technique and a refreshing approach.
     
  12. rough eye

    rough eye Tele-Meister

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    a "scale approach" is what you do when you're practicing. first we learn to run; then we learn to play basketball. we don't only run when playing basketball but hard to be any good if you can't run at all. if you know your scales well enough you can sit down with that track and transcribe it just on hearing it, without a guitar in your hands.
     
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  13. PhredE

    PhredE Tele-Afflicted

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    Good playing.

    I think I counted about 12 times that his left hand pinky was used to fret a note LOL.
    If I had done that when I was taking lessons, I would have ejected into the stratosphere with no warning! :D
     
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  14. superjam144

    superjam144 Tele-Afflicted

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    Gave it another listen. Seems like the majority of it is within the minor pentatonic. But he's just playing it up and down the neck. There's a bit more to it. I see he threw in some interesting modal stuff that I missed.
     
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  15. mugen74

    mugen74 Tele-Holic

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    I’m not knowledgeable enough to say what it is. It sounds like more pentatonic wankery to me though.

    Either way, the tone is unbearable and it’s definitely not music I’d want to listen to beyond this one time.
     
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  16. Macrogats

    Macrogats Friend of Leo's

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    Well, the dude can certainly play, but it was just too disjointed for me.
     
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  17. Telenator

    Telenator Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Wow, that's really sad. I don't know what your musical background is, but there is so much more going on here than pentatonic wankery.
    I won't sit and listen to this style music either, and I'm actually glad the cut was short, but that dude was playing some very cool stuff.
    The moment I hear a misplaced b3 over a major chord I'm out. Sure, it works for some things, but most often it points to a missed lesson in musical vocabulary.

    This isn't the kind of music I listen too daily, but wow, this guy brought some serious chops to the table and I can certainly appreciate his skills.
     
  18. DougM

    DougM Poster Extraordinaire

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    It's still based on scales, as all soloing is, even if he's mixing them up to create his melodic (?) ideas. I do it all the time, playing a line that begins in one key and ends in another, following the chord changes. But, this wasn't really my taste. It sounds like fretboards gymnastics to me, rather than any interesting melodic explorations that I want to hear. It's all flash and no groove, no real melodic center to bring the listener in. And, he's using a lot of standard minor pentatonics tying the other more flashy bits together.
     
  19. MatchlessMan

    MatchlessMan Tele-Holic

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    Many years ago I learned the major scales in 5 positions i.e. what is now known as the CAGED system. I practised them by trying play tunes out of a book.

    Once I had done this I found I could play a melody by ear. As an unexpected benefit I also discovered I could sight-sing a written melody.

    Nowadays I hardly ever think of scales, I think of what my next few notes will be and where I will find them.

    On bass guitar it’s even less about scales, it’s all about rhythms and chords.
     
  20. Telenator

    Telenator Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Well put. I don't think about scales either. I understand that so many do, and that's how they're viewing this. But a whole other world of expression exists when approached from a different perspective. We're not all going to like the same things.
     
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