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Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Ironwolf, Sep 26, 2019.
Same with gas, electric, steam, coal and diesel power.
seems like a lot of ignorance and distaste for Tesla here... why am I not surprised?
over here in Holland, it is quite common to receive an automobile as part of your pay package, if you work for a company. It is a way to compensate the employee whiler avoiding some taxes for both employer and employee. So the lease-auto market is large and lively.
There are so many Teslas on the road in Holland - you can't walk a block without seeing one or more.
I work for many customers who drive them. I recently talked to a young couple with children who live in Amsterdam, and travel regularly to Switzerland during the winter to enjoy snow sports at their family's winter home. They have complete confidence in their Tesla, having made the journey several times. The driving range is sufficient and the infrastructure is there to recharge on the road.
Then by all means, go out and buy one of those overpriced buggers. And if you are really feeling foolish, buy its stock and bonds. The power bank is stupid ab initio because they use a bunch of bad laptop batteries for power storage and they catch on fire for no reason with increasing frequency. The autopilot mode is stupid as well and the reported frequency of crashes is increasing because people are stupid enough to rely on it alone.
Then there is the bleak financial future for the company. It is burning cash like crazy, it has major production and delivery problems, and the countdown is on for bankruptcy. Perhaps the biggest threat it faces it that every established auto maker needs to low emission vehicles to bring down the fleet average and get the credits. Thus, auto companies that have a dealer network, know what they are doing, and sell autos that actually make money will produce and sell good EV's at better prices than Tesla.
Porsche and Volvo do not have all the bad press about defects, fires, poor repair service and time, and bad press about financial performance and potential obsolescence and parts difficulties. Those companies are set to roll out some nice, expensive EV's that are likely to put a big hurt on Tesla. Reports have been published about Porsche deposits and it is said a lot of those are people ditching Teslas due to all the ownership headaches.
Where is Ralph Nader when he is needed? Those Teslas are not safe at any speed, any when being transported.
The thing about petroleum and coal is when you find a little bit of it, you've usually found a whole lot of it, and we are really good at finding it. So the energy needed to produce these power sources is actually not bad at all.
Skepticism is not the same as ignorance. And, respectfully, an anecdote from one satisfied customer isn't really the most effective rejoinder to that skepticism. But I'm glad to hear your snow bunnies think their car has sufficient range. That is only one of many many factors that consumers need to consider when they think about this particular piece of tech.
There is a 'certain group' of people who really loves to see impulses like this (saving energy, etc.) fail.
There is even contempt.
I had an early Prius, and members of the previously alluded to 'certain group' of people would actually flip me the bird...for saving fuel and reducing emissions.
The idea that an earnest effort to improve our world could breed such contempt, makes me feel things about my fellow man that, if expressed, would get me booted from TRDPRI.
What's next? Members of Greenpeace drown trying to save beached whales...bwaahahaha...serves those do-gooders right...?
What do I do at night? Ask my wife. My own city charges their BEVs. The neighboring city staggers shifts and work flow to get 90 minute charging sessoins. Where BEV busses are starting they charge at some of their stops.
Personally, I think it's a little early for a BEV to work for me but I understand the investments and strategy in the auto industry.
For the comments on quality. 5 close associates have Teslas. They do not have many problems and have found the servicing of issues to be reasonable. Especially the two who only drove GM or Chrysler products prior.
Two of the Model 3 owners close to me calculate total ownership will be close to or less than the slightly less expensive to buy Honda and Toyota products they had. They know they're not the right vehicle for an occasional long road trip but say they're perfect for the 40 and 85 mile commutes they do 5x a week.
I'm aware that all cars, trucks and busses are toxic but don't understand why some people are so totally against them. My hybrid approach pollutes too. I use my feet or a bicycle to cover 10 as much as 100 miles a week that used to be a car.
I'm not sure cars make as much sense as some truck and bus applications.
How do you know they weren't flipping you the bird for going 45 in a 65 mph zone?
Tesla is losing some of its EV fanboys to Porsche.
but, wait, the carrier caused the fire not the tesla and the subaru was a total loss too... so... you know, I get the whole you think Tesla is the devil thing, but... that story, breathless as it is, doesn't really reflect that at all.
so... was finding the sun and the wind harder to find than, say, petroleum?
HEY!!! I always drive AT LEAST the speed limit.
Although...some cars take longer to get there than others.
I used a calendar instead of a stopwatch.
The Porsche will be 2X as expensive as the Tesla and less useful I'd bet. That is all most of the European car companies are good for (building for the 1%).
I think Teslas are great cars... I would love to buy one. I share the concern the company is a mess and needs to get it's manufacturing house in order.
I would mostly be concerned about how much money a Tesla cruiser costs once you add all the police junk into it and whether that would make sense on a financial level for the city. Anyone who follows town finance can understand the town departments sure seem to need a lot of expensive toys and a Tesla cruiser sounds like it probably costs an awful lot since the car is 2-3X more expensive to start with than the normal cars that get turned into Police cruisers.
Mostly the only thing wrong with Teslas is they're still too expensive... 2nd would be fear the service department.
Electric cars are the wave of the future, you can't hold back progress, eventually like the eight track player, they will disappear into the rear view mirror of history. Something always pushes out the present means of transportation, how do you think the horse felt? Hardest hit will be the Harley Davidson rider of the future. When he mounts his trusty steed and roars off into that vast highway of adventure, he could easily be mistaken for a golfer who has lost his way in a golf cart.
Even the best of the beast mega HP sports cars MIA or elsewhere are hard pressed to holeshot a fully charged Telsa with a little 90 pound girl driving it.
We have a Tesla 3. There have been ZERO issues with it. Rather than bring it into the shop they automatically send out firmware updates as needed.
With the available federal and state rebates it ends up being cheaper to buy than a lot of cars people drive, and a heck of a lot cheaper than the rest of luxury sector that it
competes in. We're talking about $30k net for a car with every bell and whistle you can imagine. And there's zero need for tuneups, oil changes, etc., so you save a ton there.
Never mind how much you save per mile using electricity rather than petroleum. And, you never have to go to the gas station, which is a big time saver.
Whether you care about climate change or not, if you actually drive one and do the math you might be surprised at how much money you save over let's say 5 years.
Here's some math for you. It takes about one kilowatt hour to go 4.4 miles in a Tesla 3. We charge during off-peak hours at 10 cents a kilowatt hour. The average price
of gasoline in the USA is $2.50 a gallon. If I can go 4.4 miles for 10 cents, that means I can go 110 miles for $2.50 in a Tesla 3. I.e., I'm getting the equivalent of 110
mpg. (Gas is actually more expensive in CA so I'm actually getting an even higher net savings per mile traveled).
Let's say your daily commute is 50 miles. Let's say your car gets 25 mpg, which is pretty good. Your commute, just for gasoline, costs you 2 gallons, or $5 every
day. Times 5 days a week is $25. Meanwhile the Tesla 3 will cost you $1.14 per day in electricity, or $5.70 for the 5 days. You would save $19.30 a week on gas. That
adds up pretty fast. In fifteen weeks you've saved enough to buy a used MIM Strat.
And you never need an oil change, never need a brake job, never need a tune up. Ever. If you have a 10 gallon tank in this scenario you are going
to the gas station at least once a week. When I had a Volt I think I put gas in it about 5 times total in 3 years. My wife hever has to stop at a gas station now that she
has the Tesla 3.
With a 300 mile range the only time we need to think about charging it somewhere else other than home is when we go on a long trip. Stopping every 250 miles or so
for a break and spending an hour at a fast recharge station isn't that big of a damper on taking a trip, IMO. YMMV, of course. It is more practical for us because we
Tesla has installed a lot of fast recharge stations in California. They have installed a lot in other places, too, and they even provide a trip planner that maps out where the supercharging
stations are along your route and recommends where you should stop along the way:
Another note. The Tesla factory is in Fremont, CA, so this helps explain why the Fremont Police drives Teslas.
The acceleration on these things is truly ludicrous. So for quickly catching up to someone it's pretty hard to beat.
The Standard Range Tesla 3 version can go 0-60 mph (96.5 km/h) in 5.6 seconds. The top of the line Tesla Model 3
Performance accelerates in 3.2 seconds. For comparison, The 495-horsepower mid-engine Corvette Stingray will scoot from 0-60 mph in
2.92 seconds when equipped with the Z51 package and performance exhaust. I think the Z51 Corvette will set you back a lot more $$ than a Tesla 3, require more maintenance,
and be less reliable. Never mind there's no room in the back for a perp.
With regard to the grid. 1) depending on where you live more and more of the grid's power is coming from renewable sources and that is only going to get better (except maybe
in Ohio). 2) Musk and others are promoting both solar and battery technologies. As more and more people install rooftop solar and battery storage systems then grid demand from
electric vehicle charging will be dramatically mitigated.
I have a good friend from college who lives in Vermont and while he has reduced range in colder weather he still loves his Tesla 3. He's been a car nut his whole life-- he bought it for the performance,
not because he's a tree hugger or anything like that. They also sell a lot of them in Scandinavia. Last I checked, it's pretty cold up there.
The vast majority of people would rarely have a range issue and for those occasions that they did, they could always just rent a different car. Do the math and they would totally save
$$ overall. But Americans don't think that way. They buy a vehicle to address extremely rare events rather than one that is practical for their normal daily routine. So a person
buys an F250 for the five times a year they need to tow something heavy and then the rest of the time they're just burning gas and $$ to do a 30 mile commute. This is just like the guys
that buy a Marshall half stack for the two times a year they hypothetically might need one....when in fact they could rent one for a gig if they ever actually needed it.
contrarians.it's a thing.
I had a couple of priuses (great mileage, super reliable and, well, zippy at least by gen 3) I put 500K miles on them without anything besides gas and oil changes... my daughter has one now. I never had anyone flip me the bird (that I saw) and while I'm not a crazy driver, I hang with the 80 mph on the freeway, so only the craziest zipped by....
great car if you ask me and a great value too...