Wiring the pedal board

[Endless Mike]

So I just rewired my pedalboard. I'd had George L's on there (without the solderless connections). I screwed up and bought some Mogami and pancake right angle jacks from AliExpress (I know, I know. I won't do it again, I promise). The right angle jacks were total garbage. I wouldn't even give them to someone for free. Even in the brief time it takes to get solder on and make the connections, it heats up a rubber seal where the jack connector meets the jack body, and it becomes wobbly. Doesn't matter how quickly you heat it up and get off, apparently any heat is just too much. So I had to re-use the previous right angle jacks, but really want a clean start with jacks without any use, repeated exposure to heat from a soldering iron.

So I'm intending to buy confirmed Mogami cable from Redco, but I'm unclear about any potential differences between Mogami, Belden, Canare, Gepco, Gotham, Lake Cable and Redco's house brand. I can't seem to find any qualitative comparisons. I'm thinking maybe one of the other brands might be better. The George L's seemed to really favor high frequencies, which I didn't care for. It does seem that cable can make a difference, and wonder what to expect from different brands. I do like the thinner Mogami as that would be easier to work with when it comes to getting the jacks screwed closed tightly.

I was going to buy right angle pancake ends from Tayda, due to price. I'm wary after Aliexpress, but I've never bought anything from Tayda that was junk. Switches, jacks, pots and other electronic components have all been good. Anyone ever use the Tayda 1/4 inch pancake jacks? Is there another source that's affordable? I'm going to need twenty of them, as well as a few standard right angles, as well as the cable. Trying to do this as economically as possible, seeing as how the prices of things like gas and groceries are through the roof.

Would appreciate input, suggestions, ideas, thoughts, heck even *opinions*

 

[65 Champ Amp]

It’s not that Georgie L’a cable favors high frequencies, it’s the lower capacitance found in higher quality cables not cutting the highs.

What you’re hearing is closer to the pure, unaffected sound of your rig.

You can always attenuate the highs using your amp and guitar tone knobs, but you cannot add back what a cheaper cable takes away.
This is why buffers in pedals exist ~ to counter the attenuation of cables.

If you refuse to roll off your tone knob to suit the music, and think you’ll never want that full frequency, you could buy an old school long coily cord. That ought to muffle it up. And if it worked for Jimi...

 

[Endless Mike]

It’s not that Georgie L’a cable favors high frequencies, it’s the lower capacitance found in higher quality cables not cutting the highs.

What you’re hearing is closer to the pure, unaffected sound of your rig.

You can always attenuate the highs using your amp and guitar tone knobs, but you cannot add back what a cheaper cable takes away.
This is why buffers in pedals exist ~ to counter the attenuation of cables.

If you refuse to roll off your tone knob to suit the music, and think you’ll never want that full frequency, you could buy an old school long coily cord. That ought to muffle it up. And if it worked for Jimi...

Boy, you really have to be careful about how you word things...

Yes, I understand it is a result of capacitance. I just worded differently than you, and perhaps should have been clearer, more specific and perhaps operational.

But you missed my point completely, and my question goes unanswered. I'm certainly not wiring my pedal board with coiled cable, and attenuating the highs isn't exactly what I'm after. I'll just have to look harder to for qualitative comparisons of these different brands. Maybe the sound I've heard with different brands is all a result of capacitance, but I don't know. I was given a number of different brands of high end cables some years back. Some were brighter than others, some not. But almost all sounded a little different. I have a roadhog from that bunch of cables, and it really is heavy on the midrange. Does high capacitance cause a cable to not only sound darker, but also have rolled off bass and a noticeable midrange. Perhaps so. I can see how it is possible.

Again, my questions go unanswered. I'll just buy the Mogami cable, the ends from Tayda (ends have more capacitance than cables, more often than not!) and be done with it.

Thanks!

 

[basher]

Anyone ever use the Tayda 1/4 inch pancake jacks?

You mean these here? https://www.taydaelectronics.com/ha...6-35mm-1-4-stereo-right-angle-metal-plug.html They're totally fine. Solder cleanly and use heat shrink and you're good to go.

 

[65 Champ Amp]

Boy, you really have to be careful about how you word things...

Yes, I understand it is a result of capacitance. I just worded differently than you, and perhaps should have been clearer, more specific and perhaps operational.

But you missed my point completely, and my question goes unanswered. I'm certainly not wiring my pedal board with coiled cable, and attenuating the highs isn't exactly what I'm after. I'll just have to look harder to for qualitative comparisons of these different brands. Maybe the sound I've heard with different brands is all a result of capacitance, but I don't know. I was given a number of different brands of high end cables some years back. Some were brighter than others, some not. But almost all sounded a little different. I have a roadhog from that bunch of cables, and it really is heavy on the midrange. Does high capacitance cause a cable to not only sound darker, but also have rolled off bass and a noticeable midrange. Perhaps so. I can see how it is possible.

Again, my questions go unanswered. I'll just buy the Mogami cable, the ends from Tayda (ends have more capacitance than cables, more often than not!) and be done with it.

Thanks!

Yes, I glossed right over that you were lookling for all the little, between the pedals cables.
Oh well. I just wanted to use the big word CAPACITANCE.

Years ago, I was convinced to use Georgie L cables and solderless connectors by a guy in a small shop. He wires pedalboards for a lot of guitarists in local working bands. I think that was in the nineties, and he’s still doing it now, and still using GL.

I know there are a lot of good cables out since then, but I’m happy with GL and the solderless connectors. I can solder well, but on the very rare occasion I get a crackle, it’s a lot easier to figure out the culprit and tighten it up by hand.
There’s a lot of derision toward solderless connections on the internet, but I think they’re great, and I move things around and set up/tear down a lot.

Good luck.

 

[teegarplayer]

The capacitance within the cable will tend to attenuate the higher freq more than the low freq. Personally, I use a single loop switcher pedal to listen to how a cable will augment my sound. I plug my guitar into the INPUT, my amp into the OUTPUT, then insert JUST the cable between the Send and Return jacks. Then I toggle back and fourth between the bypass and engage setting while playing my guitar. This adds and removes JUST the cable from my signal path and I can hear if there is any alteration of my tone. Hope this helps.

 

[wildschwein]

“High-capacitance cables shift the resonance towards the lower frequencies which dramatically alters tone. For example, Jimi Hendrix used a coiled cord with 3,000 picofarads (.003 microfarads), shifting the resonance below 2,000 Hertz on his Strats. This was the secret of Jimi's tone. Shifting the resonance frequency at 2,000 Hertz has a similar effect to a midrange boost. However, when he recorded and needed a typical Strat sound for some tracks, Jimi switched to a short, low-capacitance cable."

Source: http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/Connector_Cable.htm

 

[knockeduptele]

So I just rewired my pedalboard. I'd had George L's on there (without the solderless connections). I screwed up and bought some Mogami and pancake right angle jacks from AliExpress (I know, I know. I won't do it again, I promise). The right angle jacks were total garbage. I wouldn't even give them to someone for free. Even in the brief time it takes to get solder on and make the connections, it heats up a rubber seal where the jack connector meets the jack body, and it becomes wobbly. Doesn't matter how quickly you heat it up and get off, apparently any heat is just too much. So I had to re-use the previous right angle jacks, but really want a clean start with jacks without any use, repeated exposure to heat from a soldering iron.

So I'm intending to buy confirmed Mogami cable from Redco, but I'm unclear about any potential differences between Mogami, Belden, Canare, Gepco, Gotham, Lake Cable and Redco's house brand. I can't seem to find any qualitative comparisons. I'm thinking maybe one of the other brands might be better. The George L's seemed to really favor high frequencies, which I didn't care for. It does seem that cable can make a difference, and wonder what to expect from different brands. I do like the thinner Mogami as that would be easier to work with when it comes to getting the jacks screwed closed tightly.

I was going to buy right angle pancake ends from Tayda, due to price. I'm wary after Aliexpress, but I've never bought anything from Tayda that was junk. Switches, jacks, pots and other electronic components have all been good. Anyone ever use the Tayda 1/4 inch pancake jacks? Is there another source that's affordable? I'm going to need twenty of them, as well as a few standard right angles, as well as the cable. Trying to do this as economically as possible, seeing as how the prices of things like gas and groceries are through the roof.

Would appreciate input, suggestions, ideas, thoughts, heck even *opinions*

I used to use cheap pancake jacks for pedalboard links- for space really but got fed up with the tips falling off or rotating etc, so moved onto switchcraft pancakes that dont have any of those issues and are proper but are bigger

then i discovered Square Plugs (the SP400) - switchcraft quality but much smaller (and they have a tag for the screen like neutriks) - but do require a skinny cable - 5mm so i use Van Damme unbalanced patch cable - I have no idea where you would get this stuff in the US but am sure its around

To give you some idea of how compact they are which makes them ideal for board links see below

 

[dreamingtele]

I have mixed cables from Mogami, Canare and some cheap unknown ones but quality made.

I just got the Mogami and Canare ones in generic lengths (6”, 12” 18”, etc) and just planned everything and all the wire routes to make it clean.

any differences with patch cables, I dont notice it at all.

Untitled by D Y, on Flickr

Untitled by D Y, on Flickr

Untitled by D Y, on Flickr

Untitled by D Y, on Flickr

Untitled by D Y, on Flickr

Untitled by D Y, on Flickr

 

[Jeru]

Maybe you are a pro and really need a pro-level rig. If not, my opinion
(worth exactly the amount that you paid for it / disregard if useless to
you) is that you might perhaps might be overthinking this.

I’m decidedly NOT a pro -- I gig on average twice monthly.

I use short right angle cables that I buy on Amazon. My pedal board
hasn't come apart or failed on me, sounds great. The cables haven’t
been dipped in magic unicorn piss, but the people still dance.

 

[JuneauMike]

Much as we want to believe that expensive George L cables are awesome and the cheap Amazon junk will harm your audio quality, cables do very simple things and the jacks are mechanical devices. If you solder them properly they will be just fine.

 

[Endless Mike]

You mean these here? https://www.taydaelectronics.com/ha...6-35mm-1-4-stereo-right-angle-metal-plug.html They're totally fine. Solder cleanly and use heat shrink and you're good to go.

Yep, dem's da ones.

Yes, I glossed right over that you were lookling for all the little, between the pedals cables.
Oh well. I just wanted to use the big word CAPACITANCE.

Years ago, I was convinced to use Georgie L cables and solderless connectors by a guy in a small shop. He wires pedalboards for a lot of guitarists in local working bands. I think that was in the nineties, and he’s still doing it now, and still using GL.

I know there are a lot of good cables out since then, but I’m happy with GL and the solderless connectors. I can solder well, but on the very rare occasion I get a crackle, it’s a lot easier to figure out the culprit and tighten it up by hand.
There’s a lot of derision toward solderless connections on the internet, but I think they’re great, and I move things around and set up/tear down a lot.

Good luck.

It's cool, no problem. Your post motivated me to do some reading on the issue, so it was all to the good. I learned a lot, most of which I didn't know. There's also the issue of resonant frequencies in tandem with the capacitance matter. The consensus (no surprise here) is that all the talk about cables imparting a particular sound is marketing/advertising hype and BS. Cables imparting any sonic quality is, from what I understand, a matter of capacitance and resonant frequency correlation. I'm still reading and trying to understand the subject, so I can't say much more than that, except that those two together appear to explain what I've heard with various cables.

I used to use cheap pancake jacks for pedalboard links- for space really but got fed up with the tips falling off or rotating etc, so moved onto switchcraft pancakes that dont have any of those issues and are proper but are bigger

then i discovered Square Plugs (the SP400) - switchcraft quality but much smaller (and they have a tag for the screen like neutriks) - but do require a skinny cable - 5mm so i use Van Damme unbalanced patch cable - I have no idea where you would get this stuff in the US but am sure its around

To give you some idea of how compact they are which makes them ideal for board links see below

I've seen those plugs, but didn't get a sense of their size. Your photo cleared that up nicely, so thank you. I'll buy some of those down the line. Currently I have to do this on a bit of a budget, so I'll go with Tayda for now. If I begin doing gigs and/or regular recording again, then I'll go back and replace the ends with those square ones. Anything to free up space on this board. I've got a Boss RT-20 I can't get on the bugger, and it only lacks by fractions of an inch.

Like I wrote previously, I've never encountered Tayda to sell junk. AliExpress on the other hand. Wow, it's amazing the degree of crap they sell. There are some good sellers with quality products, but it's next to impossible to know until you have it in your hands. The male part of the connector was loose and rotated, as you described. I even managed to get the soldering time down to seconds to make the connections. didn't matter. They can't withstand any degree of heat!

 

[knockeduptele]

Yep, dem's da ones.

It's cool, no problem. Your post motivated me to do some reading on the issue, so it was all to the good. I learned a lot, most of which I didn't know. There's also the issue of resonant frequencies in tandem with the capacitance matter. The consensus (no surprise here) is that all the talk about cables imparting a particular sound is marketing/advertising hype and BS. Cables imparting any sonic quality is, from what I understand, a matter of capacitance and resonant frequency correlation. I'm still reading and trying to understand the subject, so I can't say much more than that, except that those two together appear to explain what I've heard with various cables.

I've seen those plugs, but didn't get a sense of their size. Your photo cleared that up nicely, so thank you. I'll buy some of those down the line. Currently I have to do this on a bit of a budget, so I'll go with Tayda for now. If I begin doing gigs and/or regular recording again, then I'll go back and replace the ends with those square ones. Anything to free up space on this board. I've got a Boss RT-20 I can't get on the bugger, and it only lacks by fractions of an inch.

Like I wrote previously, I've never encountered Tayda to sell junk. AliExpress on the other hand. Wow, it's amazing the degree of crap they sell. There are some good sellers with quality products, but it's next to impossible to know until you have it in your hands. The male part of the connector was loose and rotated, as you described. I even managed to get the soldering time down to seconds to make the connections. didn't matter. They can't withstand any degree of heat!

The price point on the Square plugs is not far off the Switchcrafts (well over here anyway) the core advantage is their small size and the ability to tighten up pedal spacing (tighter than than the cranked joiners which i dont like as pedals wobble side to side as you stomp on them and stress the jacks so at least they are flexible links) cable selection for them is difficult which is why i go down Van Damme route and it does need to be a quality cable - bear in mind that on a large complex board the overall length of the path can be longer than a 20ft guitar cable.

 

[Si G X]

I was going to buy right angle pancake ends from Tayda, due to price. I'm wary after Aliexpress, but I've never bought anything from Tayda that was junk. Switches, jacks, pots and other electronic components have all been good. Anyone ever use the Tayda 1/4 inch pancake jacks? Is there another source that's affordable? I'm going to need twenty of them, as well as a few standard right angles, as well as the cable. Trying to do this as economically as possible, seeing as how the prices of things like gas and groceries are through the roof.

Would appreciate input, suggestions, ideas, thoughts, heck even *opinions*

Yeah I bought 40 of the Tayda 50 cents pancake jacks ..... unfortunately I wouldn't recommend. I can take some photos in the morning if you like and show you why... but in short, they break. The jack shaft just breaks off the pancake body, I had one get suck in a pedal!

sadly I don't know of any alternatives that inexpensive. I have maybe 10 (on five cables) that are still fine but the vast majority are knackered. .... in a few years.

 

[vjf1968]

So I just rewired my pedalboard. I'd had George L's on there (without the solderless connections). I screwed up and bought some Mogami and pancake right angle jacks from AliExpress (I know, I know. I won't do it again, I promise). The right angle jacks were total garbage. I wouldn't even give them to someone for free. Even in the brief time it takes to get solder on and make the connections, it heats up a rubber seal where the jack connector meets the jack body, and it becomes wobbly. Doesn't matter how quickly you heat it up and get off, apparently any heat is just too much. So I had to re-use the previous right angle jacks, but really want a clean start with jacks without any use, repeated exposure to heat from a soldering iron.

So I'm intending to buy confirmed Mogami cable from Redco, but I'm unclear about any potential differences between Mogami, Belden, Canare, Gepco, Gotham, Lake Cable and Redco's house brand. I can't seem to find any qualitative comparisons. I'm thinking maybe one of the other brands might be better. The George L's seemed to really favor high frequencies, which I didn't care for. It does seem that cable can make a difference, and wonder what to expect from different brands. I do like the thinner Mogami as that would be easier to work with when it comes to getting the jacks screwed closed tightly.

I was going to buy right angle pancake ends from Tayda, due to price. I'm wary after Aliexpress, but I've never bought anything from Tayda that was junk. Switches, jacks, pots and other electronic components have all been good. Anyone ever use the Tayda 1/4 inch pancake jacks? Is there another source that's affordable? I'm going to need twenty of them, as well as a few standard right angles, as well as the cable. Trying to do this as economically as possible, seeing as how the prices of things like gas and groceries are through the roof.

Would appreciate input, suggestions, ideas, thoughts, heck even *opinions*

I use these https://www.redco.com/Squareplug-SP400-Low-Profile-Flat-TS.html with the Mogami W2314 Miniature Instrument Cable. I don't do a lot of soldering so mistakes have been made but I do find the plugs sturdy. You have to pay a little more for quality.

 

[Endless Mike]

Yeah I bought 40 of the Tayda 50 cents pancake jacks ..... unfortunately I wouldn't recommend. I can take some photos in the morning if you like and show you why... but in short, they break. The jack shaft just breaks off the pancake body, I had one get suck in a pedal!

sadly I don't know of any alternatives that inexpensive. I have maybe 10 (on five cables) that are still fine but the vast majority are knackered. .... in a few years.

That's all I needed to hear, thanks for the information. Dang, I was really hoping I could get this done for around 60.00, but that's not going to be the case. Tayda has higher quality jacks, but I might as well buy them from Redco at that price.

 

[Endless Mike]

The price point on the Square plugs is not far off the Switchcrafts (well over here anyway) the core advantage is their small size and the ability to tighten up pedal spacing (tighter than than the cranked joiners which i dont like as pedals wobble side to side as you stomp on them and stress the jacks so at least they are flexible links) cable selection for them is difficult which is why i go down Van Damme route and it does need to be a quality cable - bear in mind that on a large complex board the overall length of the path can be longer than a 20ft guitar cable.

My board requires less than that fortunately. I'm using some of the miniature Mogami, so that will work if I get the square jacks. Looking at Redco to see what they have. They offer the square jacks, but I'm trying to keep this as low cost as I can manage.