Wiring tele HH 2x double tap

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Wandererr, Mar 28, 2020.

  1. Wandererr

    Wandererr TDPRI Member

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    Hi, I’m looking to setup a MIM player HH with 2 Fender Double Tap humbuckers instead of the stock ones.

    I have the HH wiring scheme with the standard humbuckers from fender, but the double taps are wired diffently.

    Wondering if anyone has ever done a tele with 2 double taps?
    I’m hoping to find a wiring scheme
     
  2. nathan5782

    nathan5782 Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    The double tap humbuckers are 4 conductor wiring so you can split the coils, from what you’re describing it sounds like the old pickups are two conductor. Are you going to add push pull pots or a mini toggle to split them or do you just want to wire them as standard humbuckers?
     
  3. Wandererr

    Wandererr TDPRI Member

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    Yes the idea is to split them with a push pull tonepot.
    I’m trying to do this standard scheme from the fender player HH, but the colors of the wires are different on the double tap. Can I do the same scheme?
    I then think that
    Double tap white = red on the scheme
    Double tap green = black
    Double tap black = white
    Double tap red = ?
    Double tap bare = green or bare?

    the wiring scheme i'm following;

    image.png

    Standard humbucker colors:
    standard humbucker front.jpg Standard humbucker back.jpg

    And the Double Tap:
    Double Tap.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  4. nathan5782

    nathan5782 Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    Ok it looks like on the player HH pickups, the white and black are combined together to make it humbucking. I found a diagram for the Double Tap on a Strat and on that it looks like the black and green combine for humbucking setting. I'm still trying to figure it out..

    Ok, it looks like hot on the Doubletap is white, red is the coil split hot, the bare wire seems to replace green on the other HH. You could use a multi meter and check if the black and green are tied together than you should get 8K ohms between bare and white wires and something less than 8K between red and bare.

    Something else I see on that HH Player diagram is they are wiring in reverse using red for hot on the neck pickup then green for hot on the bridge. It makes it tricky with the double tap because the bare seems to be not just ground but possibly the end of the pickup too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  5. Wandererr

    Wandererr TDPRI Member

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    Thanks!
    I don’t have a multimeter unfortunately..
    However I did find a Fender diagram where the Double tap is used in a telecaster performer, and it is split by the push pull toneknob. Hope that helps figuring it out?
    C4290E1C-BDA3-4C70-B130-4484212F2CD1.jpeg
     
  6. nathan5782

    nathan5782 Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    That diagram has some screw ups, on the back of the humbucker it has two black wires and no white, then where it shows the push pull wiring it says white wire from 5 way switch. Anyway from your first post question here's what I got:
    Double tap White = Red on the scheme
    Double tap Green = Black
    Double tap Black = White
    Double tap Red = Green
    Double tap bare = always grounded

    The green and black don't matter so much because they are connected together on the switch and just link the two coils on the humbucker. I had found another diagram from a strat and it was similar to the one you posted above. Fender just shut down their forums on 3/20 and my search results had a thread where somebody else posed a question and they supplied a diagram but the link doesn't work anymore, you could probably search google cached pages and find it. I had a feeling the doubletap doesn't fully split the coil but without a meter or connecting it you wouldn't be able to tell
     
  7. Wandererr

    Wandererr TDPRI Member

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    Ok i’ll try later tonight and letvyoy know with
    Double tap White = Red on the scheme
    Double tap Green = Black
    Double tap Black = White
    Double tap Red = Green
    Double tap bare = always grounded
    And follow the player HH diagram
     
  8. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Friend of Leo's

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    The Double Tap product page at Fender has an HSS Strat diagram under 'Support'

    Pickup
    Fender_Double_Tap.jpg

    The switch is wired thus. The black goes to the bridge pickup lug on the 5 way.
    Fender_Double_Tap_switch.jpg
     
  9. Wandererr

    Wandererr TDPRI Member

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    Ok so here's the result.

    Double tap White = Red on the scheme
    Double tap Green = Black
    Double tap Black = White
    Double tap Red = Green
    Double tap bare = always grounded
    Everything connected according the H H diagram:


    pos switc in bridge
    + pull activated: higher volume (compared to other tele) single coilish very thin, tone knob is working.
    + push activated: lower volume + tone not reacting

    Middle pos
    Much lower vol. push/pull functioning. Tone knob not working both in push and pull. perhaps a tiny tiny bit because the neck pup drags vol way down (see neck pos)
    Pull activated gives lower vol

    Neck pos
    such low volume I have to turn the amp to 11 and even then it's barely there. Push/pull seems to work, but tone knob does not. Pull activated gives higher vol

    Remarks
    - The volume pot is working in every position.
    - notice how the pull gives lower vol for the neck pup (as to be expected for activating single coil), and acts different on the bridge pup. Allthough i'm not sure if it's a volume boost or a frequency boost. it has the twangy sound. Nevertheless the Double Tap is made to have no vol drops/boosts from activating singlecoil vs humbucker
     
  10. nathan5782

    nathan5782 Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    I sent Fender an email. I'm linking a thread I found on another forum where the guy was doing the same setup with the Doubletap pickups on a strat and at the end he linked Fender's forum where they gave him a diagram that worked. Fender just closed their forums on 3/20, I've been trying to see if I can find a cached version of that page. I also found another article about the Double tap pickups where they describe the coil splitting and from what it sounds is that the Red wire partially splits the coil not a full even split. I think the bare wire would actually work in place of the green wire from your old pickups and the red is only for splitting.

    Here's the strat HH thread
    https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1887198

    Guitarist magazine article
    https://www.pressreader.com/australia/guitarist/20190111/282961041264947
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  11. nathan5782

    nathan5782 Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    OK I was able to find a cached version of the Fender support forum, the web page gives a security error on Chrome and Firefox so proceed at your own risk. I'm attaching the diagrams below, what the person did that worked was using a 4PDT (4 Pole double throw switch). The way this setup would work there would be no hum canceling when on single coil mode and both pickups on. The nature of the Double Tap is to not have a volume drop off so I think you're getting like maybe 70% of the pickup and not 50% like a typical split humbucker. If you were to wire one pickup in reverse to get hum canceling then I think the reverse pickup would be something weaker like 30%. You should still be able to split one pickup with what you have and hopefully I get an email response from Fender.

    Based on the new information it should be like this, you can look at the bottom of the pickup and it corresponds to the 4 corners:
    Double tap White = Red on the scheme
    Double tap Black = White
    Double tap Green = Black
    Double tap Bare = Green
    Double tap Red = no match

    https://boavontadeplay.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=113550&sid=653dff0b5833674a7efeecd74b0652e6&start=30

    DoubleTap_HH_4PDT.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  12. tessting1two

    tessting1two Tele-Holic

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    It's irritating that Fender a) sells a proprietary product without a diagram and b) shuts down its own forum and does not archive the content.

    You may have to be the squeaky wheel with Fender Support:


    NEED HELP? TALK TO A FENDER SPECIALIST!
    CALL 1-844-202-0924 OR CHAT LIVE WITH US
    MONDAY-FRIDAY 8AM-11PM EST
     
  13. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Friend of Leo's

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    This pickup sounds a lot like the PRS 408 which uses a coil and a bit split not a straight split.
    It would appear that it requires 2 push/pull pots or the 4PDT switch to achieve "single" coil on both pickups.
    It could probably be done with a Fender S1 switch to give you one push simultaneous split on both.

    Seymour Duncan '59 Custom Hybrid anyone? (Would be a lot easier)
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  14. Wandererr

    Wandererr TDPRI Member

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    thanks for the replies so far

    1. I sent a mail to fender too. Not gonna wait for a definitive answer though. Sad yes.
    2. Not sure what to make of the other diagrams because they're not what I'm after and I don't have a 4PDT switch but only a pushpull. Not sure what to learn/deduct from those other diagrams..I also have 2 double taps to wire
    3. somewhere in premierguitar I read that bare wire is always bare to ground, no exceptions. When experimenting, can I damage something when putting wires where they don't belong?
     
  15. nathan5782

    nathan5782 Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    Response to 2.
    The Doubletap humbucker takes both sides of the push pull to coil split, if you look at the diagram of the American Performer Telecaster you posted on #5 and post #8 from Tuxedo Poly, they show both sides of the switch being used to coil split the double tap. The 4PDT switch is like having two push pull pots, see post #13 he mentions using two push pull pots or a 4PDT switch. If they volume pot was changed to a push pull you could coil split each independently.
    Response to 3.
    The bare wire is linked to the metal plate on the bottom of the pickup and the cover so it should always be ground. It's like the Telecaster single coils where the metal plate is connected to the negative wire. I don't think anything would be damaged if you connected the wrong wire, you would get loud buzzing, weak or no signal most likely.

    I think a quick way just to be working again would be to not flip the wires on the bridge pickup from the original diagram you had but keep the same polarity as the neck pickup and just leave either pickup unconnected from the push pull. I attached a modded version of your original wiring with the bridge able to coil split but the neck standard humbucker.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  16. Wandererr

    Wandererr TDPRI Member

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    thx for the diagram!

    Thinking of 2 things now:

    1)
    If I would like it the other way round and have the neck be able to split (bridge I use mostly for lead and anyway), I just flip everything around from your diagram? not sure about the white wire on the switch then..?

    2)
    And if I was to have a push pull vol knob I'd be able to connect the neck pickup exactly the same as you did with the bridge on the tone knob, and have it working?
    Or does the neck white still go to the switch? And what impact is there on the other wires that are already there on the standard vol pot? Do they go the same way if there's a pushpull pot instead?

    If these 2 get answered i'm probably all set and done hopefully. Gotta order that 2nd pushpull pot, but would like to give it a go already with the neck split
     
  17. nathan5782

    nathan5782 Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    1. If you do the neck pickup then you change the wire coming from the 3 way selector to the neck Hot position and the bridge white wire goes to directly to the 3 way near the top marked with a purple X on the updated drawing. The other similar color wires are just swapped.
    2. If you add another push pull then you just have to add a hot wire from the push pull to the 3 way for whatever position that switch controls.
     

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  18. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Friend of Leo's

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    Fender describe the Double Tap as a bridge pickup so maybe they don't expect them to be used in the neck position or both positions.

    There are no instructions on how to wire it to be a full HB only and for the split operation the pickup and pot are a kind of integrated unit. Perhaps Fender should supply a suitable pot with every one of these and a simple diagram showing the pot switch connected to the pickup.

    Once the pickup and pot switch are wired together (which will be the same for bridge or neck position) there are 2 connections left to make, the pickup bare to ground and the (black) wire from the pot switch to the relevant selector switch lug. It is like connecting a single coil pickup.
     
  19. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Friend of Leo's

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    Simple diagram

    Fender_Double_Tap_Push_Pull.jpg
     
  20. nathan5782

    nathan5782 Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    I just got a response from a Fender today and they did not have a diagram for this setup, I left the name and number off:
    Good Morning,

    Thanks for taking the time to reach out to us! I do regret to inform you that we do not have a specific wiring diagram available concerning the Double Tap humbucker... I have attached a chart detailing the color code translation for or pickups and a couple of our competitors, This document will help with the 4 conductor translation. Please feel free to reach back out to me directly with any questions you may have...

    Regards,

    Name removed -

    Consumer Relations /U.S. Direct Sales
    Fender Musical Instruments Corp.
    17600 N. Perimeter Drive, Suite 100 Scottsdale, AZ 85255
    Telephone:
    Fax:

    Fender Play: The easiest way to learn guitar. Start playing now.



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