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Wiring: Shielded needed or not?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by NoTeleBob, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. Boreas

    Boreas Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Pat answer would be CRL but I also like the Kaish HD 3-way. Very easy to wire - pre-jumpered. The Kaish HDs are usually a little cheaper.

    20201013_160851.jpg 20201013_160841.jpg

    Only thing I don't like about the Kaish is the lever is metric and a little thin.
     
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  2. tubelectron

    tubelectron Tele-Afflicted

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    Kaish HD 3-way or CRL : OK. I'll check this... Thanks @Boreas ! ;)

    -tbln.
     
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  3. Boreas

    Boreas Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Oak/Grigsby are very similar to CRL, but usually a little more expensive.
     
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  4. PhredE

    PhredE Tele-Holic

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    Another vote for the KAISH - 3Way. I too have used it and like it a lot.
    No problems at all. Fit is fine, lever action smooth and no extra play.
    Construction seems quite solid as well.

    Edit: Re: shielding/OP, I ended up doing aluminum foil with spray adhesive. Seemed to do the job a-ok and I already had the stuff laying around the house. :)
     
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  5. Boreas

    Boreas Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Be forewarned - the Kaish switch is backward from the others in that the lever engages the front terminal when it is pushed forward. With the CRL when the lever is pushed forward, it activates the rear (opposite) terminal. Pivot point within the switch is different.
     
  6. tubelectron

    tubelectron Tele-Afflicted

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    OK Guys ! Thanks for that off-topic question and answers about selectors... :oops:;)

    Oak-Grigsby : yes, thanks for the reminder... :cool:

    Sure ! it works as well :)... I personally use adhesive aluminium tape, finding it more easy to handle than using adhesive spray. I think I paid 10 euros for 100m roll in 100mm width...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    But it's me, OK ?

    -tbln.
     
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  7. NoTeleBob

    NoTeleBob Tele-Meister

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    Yeah, I was thinking of the aluminum tape since I have it in stock.
     
  8. Chuckboy

    Chuckboy TDPRI Member

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    Only shield the control cavity
    Never shield the pickup cavity
     
  9. twimsatt

    twimsatt TDPRI Member

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    I learned shielding when an engineer with NASA and this is how I do it:
    Shielding a Strat
    Run the ground as a third wire within the shielded cable and only connect the shield at the pickup to ground the shield to the source.
     
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  10. jayhawknavy02

    jayhawknavy02 TDPRI Member

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    I got this from Rob at Cavalier Pickups when I asked him about shielding my Telecaster while I was going through it to remove the MIM electronics and replace the pickups:


    “I never bother with "shielding". anything conductive added to the circuit also adds unwanted capacitance that changes tone. It’s the TOP of the coil that's the antenna for hum/buzz, not the sides or bottom. Learn to love the buzz.”

    Rob
     
  11. GPoint

    GPoint TDPRI Member

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    Many, even most pickups have poles/studs or screws through, so are sensitive on noise from the bottom too. If coil sides are open - sides are sensitive too. The metal base plate is reducing bottom sensitivity, metal covers even more. Poles and screws can be grounded. All it is adding some capacitance but not so much. Additional capacitance lowers resonance (presence) peak's frequency and a little bit the highest frequencies too - what is positive for some 90+% of pickups - because most of them (especially - single coils) are too bright sounding (it is the same as longer cable's capacitance effect). Capacitance depends on shielding's distance to windings. Concerning Faraday shield or closed conductive/inductive loop (including foil shielded pickguards) around the coil - cut it from one side, it still will be a shield. This trick works even on humbucker metal covers! Twisting wires is better as without it. Twisted and shielded even better. Separating shielding and signal grounds (connected only at one point - Volume pot or output jack) even more.
     
  12. oregomike

    oregomike TDPRI Member

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    Not to mention, you can't slice your fingers up with copper shield paint! I've only used the copper tape and it works wonders, but damn. Need to be mindful of the digits!

    OregonMike
     
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  13. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Well, I hate to say it, but from my experience he's wrong. I have shielded probably a dozen guitars, and for some reason Tele types are one of the worst for noise. It has worked EVERY TIME I've shielded a guitar, and reduced noise significantly with single coil guitars. I've not been able to tell any difference in tone, but if there is, it's no more than comparing guitar cables (which I can't hear any difference in either!
     
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  14. tubelectron

    tubelectron Tele-Afflicted

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    I'd say the same, @schmee, plus add that I can't stand hum and buzz, which I consider as design failure if no effort is made to reduce it, if not eradicable.

    But it's me, OK ? :D

    -tbln.
     
  15. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    My single coil guitars are so quiet I often don't even think about it until someone on a forum like this mentions it.
    There IS very rarely a gig where there's a bad hum from ancient old wiring in the place. I'd say that has happened maybe 3 times in 30 years of playing. I had a gig once that was so bad a humbucker 335 type was also terrible. That night I had to stand with my body facing one direction only, in order to quell it!
     
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  16. tubelectron

    tubelectron Tele-Afflicted

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    Yes, true ! I also suffered that problem one time too. It was due to poor electrical installation of an ugly night club stage light-show, which moreover blinded us :mad: ! Even my venerable 1980 ES-335 was in trouble... Awful... :eek::confused:

    -tbln.
     
  17. jays0n

    jays0n Tele-Meister

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    BFA95042-88D1-4228-B585-01DCB9B18E64.jpeg Very timely. I just wired In some new humbuckers with unshielded wire thinking: they are hum canceling. But it hummed like mad, louder than my Tele. So I just (like last night) finished redoing it with shielded wire salvaged from some RCA type audio cables. It is now quiet. I am at this moment (as I read this post actually) finishing it by grounding the shielding wire in two of the wires (red and blue going to the switch). Not sure I need that but thought of it and have time today so trying. But the shielded wire took away like 95% or so of the noise. It is now much quieter then the tele, I mean at like full volume without playing or touching the strings. The cavity is not shielded in this one.


    Hope I did this correctly. The photo is from just now (before grounding those to wires I mentioned). But it worked very well without that so far.
     
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  18. NoTeleBob

    NoTeleBob Tele-Meister

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    Thanks for the timely, hands-on report... as well as the cable source idea. I was thinking I'd need to order way too many feet of some overpriced guitar wire! I have plenty of small diameter audio cables I could use as a source.
     
  19. jays0n

    jays0n Tele-Meister

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    Cool. Glad to pass on that info when it is needed. I found it by searching on TDPRI and found a thread with lots of suggestions for shielded cable and many people seem to use old RCA type cables from like old VCR hookups etc.

    The wire splits nicely into two separate wires by just lightly pulling them apart. Then inside each side is a ground wire wrapped around a shielding foil sleeve then the other wire in the center. For the longest run up from the jack to the switch I used both (ground/shield for the ground and the inner for the signal in to the switch). For the other two, first I used shrink tubes to make sure the ground/shield wire where I stripped it back at the ends will not get to the posts etc. then I used a razor to shave away a little piece of the outer insulation to expose the ground/shield and soldered it to the back of the pots (that is what I was doing while I posted so it was not finished in the photo).

    I must report though that grounding those two wires did not produce any more noticeable change. But using shielded wires really did make a difference overall and they are free :)

    Have a good time wiring. I hope it works for you too.

    j

     
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