Wiring my Nashville

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by moosie, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I added a Strat pickup to a recent Tele build, and have been trying different ideas to get the most out of the three-singles wiring scheme.

    The pickups are OC Duff Buckaroos (Tele), and Fillmore (Strat single). Parallel combos involving middle are superbly Stratty, making me think about getting a full Fillmore set for one of my Strats.

    Option 1: One of the easiest ways is to keep the master volume, and put the middle pickup on a switch, in parallel with the rest of the signal. The reason I didn't do it is because middle pickup by itself is not an option, and I do like to play middle on my Strats, sometimes.

    Option 2: Another fairly easy method, which I will probably install at some point, is the common 7-sound-Strat wiring, where (on a Strat) the second tone pot is converted to a blend, used to blend in neck or bridge, depending on the switch position. It uses a simple 5-way Strat switch, and the only difficulty is on a Tele, what to do about the third knob... Could use a small pot, or could stack vol/tone, and have the blend as the second pot.

    The nice thing about this circuit, aside from ease of implementation, is it gets Neck/Bridge in parallel, and all three in parallel. Just like the switch idea, above, except you also get the ability to play middle by itself.

    Option 3: Another way to do that idea is to install a Bridge-ON toggle that overrides normal bridge selection. You get the same functions, 7 sounds, but don't get the benefit of blending a bit of neck into bridge/middle, or vice versa. But a toggle might be easier than a stacked pot, or third pot...

    Option 4: Yet another way... this one only gets six sounds (no N+M+B, which I happen to like with these pickups)... Use a half-super switch (2 poles instead of four), and wire it like a Strat. But because all Tele players want N+B, add a toggle that swaps between middle in position 3, for N+B. It's probably the most like having a Strat-and-Tele, for those who like simple navigation in ways they're familiar with.

    Option 5: Thinking about Nashvilles leads to thoughts of Strat circuits, and Armstrong came to mind. Again, just uses a 5-way Strat switch, but through some cleverness, and a blend pot, gives lots of sounds, including some series. I have two problems with it. First, the functions lay out poorly on the switch. There's no flexibility to reorder them. I'd need a chart nearby at all times, to remember how to navigate. No good. The other thing that caused me to pass is the extra load the blend pot (and the way it's used) puts on the signal. "Lack of sparkle" was one comment I found. I considered putting the blender on a switch, so I could turn it off when not needed, and get my sparkle back, but that seemed a bit silly.


    So, I thought about all of those, and passed. At least for now. Once you see what I did try, please add any other ideas I didn't think of!

    Brent Mason
    The first wiring I tried was inspired by Brent Mason. He has a mini and a stack, and a toggle to control the stack. I don't have or need any of that, but I do like his two-volume approach. Sort of.

    I wired it as a standard 4-way Tele, plus middle pickup on it's own vol pot. As with all two-volume schemes, the vol pots are wired 'backwards' so they can each be turned down independently. Three full-size CTS pots wouldn't fit, so I used an Alpha for the middle. Could have also used a stacked 250k/250k Alpha.

    I liked the ability to dial in unequal amounts of "Tele" vs Middle. But I didn't like managing both volume pots when I simply wanted to change loudness. In other words, for me, a two-volume system works well either as a tone modulator, or a loudness control, but not both.


    Nashville 4-way VVT, 9-sounds.png


    Super Strat
    The second version I've tried is fairly complex, and keep in mind I solder for something to do. It uses a super switch (the narrow one, from ToneShapers), and an S-1. Separate from the rest of it, I'm using a modified TBX pot as a no-load bass-cut / treble-cut control ala Phostenix.


    Ten separate sounds on this one. I like the organized layout. Not sure I'll want to keep it, but it's a nice way to test what all these combinations sound like. I wrote some credits in the info box, which I've been copy/pasting for years. I can't recall where I first encountered this one, and I can't remember if I've modified it from the (modified) original.

    S-1 UP, it's like a stock Strat. S-1 DOWN provides N+B parallel, and N+M+B. Also, all three series positions.


    Nashville 5-way super, all series, all parallel.png

    Here it is:

    20200221_102712.jpg

    NOTE: Phostenix's diagrams are gone off the net, but his TBX modding info / video remains. He had the idea of painting a conductive track on half of the 1Meg portion of a TBX, converting it from whatever the TBX actually does... The pot has a center detent, and after the mod, half the rotation is like your normal treble-cut tone pot, and the other half is a bass cut. In the center, it's no-load.

    And finally, here's the patient:


    20200222_173045.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
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  2. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

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    Nice ! Have you listened to hear which p-up grounded in the various series combos sounds best ? With different p-ups which one is grounded can make a significant difference. W normal Teles the traditional G - B - N - + gives stronger mids while G - N - B - + gives better bass and highs. Of course the p-ups make a difference.
     
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  3. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Really? I'm not buying that... I've had it various ways over the years, but never noticed any difference. Wasn't looking for one, mind, but nothing jumped out at me. And logically, it makes no sense that there would be a difference.

    Got any science to back that up?

    Now I'll have to experiment... aw man...
     
  4. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    By the way, I got that Nashville pickguard on Amazon, for $11. It replaced the AV64 pickguard I had on there, which cost close to $40, IIRC.

    I can't tell any difference. Material, bevel, parchment color – all good. Nice smooth edges. Outline and holes lined up PERFECTLY, too.

    I usually have poor results buying cheap, but I wasn't sure I'd be keeping this guitar as a Nashville. More of an experiment.

    The seller has a bunch of colors, and other pickguards, too.
     
  5. FenderLover

    FenderLover Poster Extraordinaire

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    Thank you for that. I was considering a middle blend on my Strat and hadn't considered this. Although, probably no more difficult to manage than a Les Paul.
     
  6. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Not quite. Different than LP and Gretsch in that here there's no pickup selector for middle. With those you can select/deselect, and separately adjust volume, or a blend of volumes if you have independently wired pots, like Gretsch (and unlike at least modern LPs).

    With this, I had to use that middle volume for way too many tasks.

    Also, and I'm not sure, because it doesn't make sense... the tone seemed ... darker. Softer. My gut told me it was extra pot loading (both vols are 250s, all single coils), and I guess it's true, but ... really? So, if you do try it, maybe use a 500k?

    Shoot, that's another experiment to add to my list...
     
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  7. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

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    It certainly doesn't seem like it would matter, I found it by accident. The most obvious is a '59 style HB and a Tele bridge. Bridge grounded not so good. Neck grounded it sounds like a huge super powered Humbucker. Any normal and hot combo is very different as well. Normal through Hot sounds better. I think it s loading. High Z into low Z bad, low Z into high Z good.
     
  8. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I'll test, though I only deal in low output pickups, more or less. So, I still might not notice...
     
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  9. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I have a Nashville. :)
    Not series, but p/p for neck and bridge anyway. LOVE IT!!

    I have my '95 Standard with CS Texas Specials, and 4W. LOVE IT !

    So as I was reading this, about grounding, I remember it coming up before and also thinkin', why the heck would those little electron dudes care which way they run the tracks ??

    I also remember saving a post about it at the time, (I'm an info freak) and just so happens, it was none other than teletarr I cut and pasted. I myself have never taken the time to play around with it, now having to mod. my bridge (to 3 wire). Someday perhaps.

    Sorry the google link is dead. If anyone would like to see it, I have some of phostenix's (wth ever happened to him ? nothing bad I hope !!) diagrams saved and could dig it up.


    per TDPRI Teleterr


    Note that in series order matters. G-B-N-Hot sounds different than G-N-B-Hot even w the same p/ups. W 2 different p/ups as w a Tele you get filtering effects if the higher Z p/up is grounded. If you do this https://sites.google.com/site/phoste...dardTele4WayNG you might find you like it better. Better bass and highs. W the normal grounded B wiring you get filtering w mids emphasis.I like 500Ks w everything . If its too bright just turn down. You can't add highs that aren't there anymore.


    Noramlly Tele 4 way (Per Fender) is bridge grounded. G-B-N-Hot


    to reverse see diagram (in this file): Bridge series Tele 4-W G-N-B-Hot



     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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  10. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

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    The electrons are flowing from ground to hot so different pickups present a different filter to their flow.
    To really hear the biggest difference the Neck Humbucker , Bridge Tele Single really stands out like a sore thumb.
     
  11. DavidP

    DavidP Friend of Leo's

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    Hmmm, I'm about to embark on a low-wind PAF neck install, so this is has caught my attention and interest.
    However, as sajatalon notes, that original link is dead so yes, please either post or pm the respective diagrams!!
     
  12. Recce

    Recce Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    If I was going to wire Nashville I think I would start on Broad and work from there. Some great music can be heard on Broad.
     
  13. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere ya go folks !

    Neck ground.
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. DavidP

    DavidP Friend of Leo's

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    Yippee!!! Thanks!
     
  15. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I figure if I test the series order thing, I'll never be able to tell without hearing them back to back, with all other factors unchanged. So, here's a little tester I'm wiring up...

    Single S-1 switch, nothing else. Oh, you can add a tone pot if you wish.

    No selector, because it only does two things. Series Neck > Bridge, and Series Bridge > Neck.

    Screen Shot 2020-02-23 at 07.44.28 PM.png
     
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  16. DavidP

    DavidP Friend of Leo's

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    Moosie: my thoughts exactly on hearing a difference after rewiring...
    Anxiously awaiting the results of your back-to-back testing!
     
  17. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    moosie, cool biz !
     
  18. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Sorry for any confusion, with pickup leads. I have drawn them as short lines with labels, like N+ for a long time. I'm starting to transition to drawing the actual pickups, because it seems people understand that better. I find it messy, though, so when it seems like a no-brainer, I'll use the labels to limit clutter. That's why there's no Neck Cover lead, and just a small label for it.
     
  19. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    .

    Aaargh... test results forthcoming, need more time...

    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  20. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

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    Totally possible. The p-ups do make a difference. I ve had the neck grounded brighter too. Induction, capacitance, resistance etc is a big factor. Thanks for experimenting. I can never get anyone to believe me, so it's nice to be vindicated. W equal p-ups, say an old school Strat set the difference is there but more subtle. I generally just have one way as a switching option to facilitate wiring ease in multiple combo scheme's.
     
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