Wiring diagram help!

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by ovation23, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. ovation23

    ovation23 TDPRI Member

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    Hi all!

    I'm looking for some help with putting together a wiring diagram for a current build.

    The details:
    I've got a DiMarzio Twang King single coil in the neck and a DiMarzio Chopper T humbucker in the bridge with a 3-way selector switch.

    What I'm looking to do is use two Fender S-1 switches, one in the volume position and the other in the tone position. For the volume S-1, I'd like it to coil tap the Chopper T. For the tone S-1, I'd like to have the Twang King and Chopper T run in series (Twang + coil tapped Chopper T in series) when the 3-way selector switch is in the middle position.

    I've already heavily searched this site, Fender's site, DiMarzio's site (it wasn't much help, as they are upgrading their support pages), and I've read and re-read The Mod Garage articles on the Premier Guitar site. Needless to say, my head is spinning lol.

    Is there anyone who can draw me a wiring diagram to accomplish what I'm looking to do? Also, if more info is needed, please let me know.

    Thanks to everyone in advance!
     
  2. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Do you specifically want S-1s? Because both these functions can be addressed with cheaper two-pole push-pull pots.

    And knowing that might make it easier to find a diagram... ;)
     
  3. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Here it is with the S1s... as you can see Vol S1 only needs 1 pole (or half a push-pull), and Tone S1 only needs two poles. But if you want the S1s for the push-push action, yeah, I get that. It's nice.


    Screen Shot 2019-08-23 at 02.26.49 AM.png
     
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  4. ovation23

    ovation23 TDPRI Member

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    Moosie, this is great! Thank you! Can you please explain what you mean by "half a push-pull?"
     
  5. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Afflicted

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    I believe what he is saying is that a p/p pot has 3 lugs on each side, with the middle being common.
    To split the bridge pickup, you only use one side of the lugs. upload_2019-8-23_7-24-54.png
    Assuming you wanted to split both pickups, you could hook up the bridge on one side and the neck on the other, allowing you to split both at once. But not pick one or the other.

    Correct me if I am wrong here moosie
     
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  6. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Right. Except your picture is not quite correct. It says the two commons are 'always connected'. That should read 'never connected'. Perhaps you pulled the image from a description of some specialty switch? I dunno. But it's not the norm.


    Guitar switches 101

    Guitar switches, be they S1, push-pull, mini-toggles, 3 and 5 way blades, superswitches, etc, are all organized into poles and throws. Think of a pole as a bank of terminals, consisting of one common, and usually* one other terminal for each 'throw' or switch position. The poles, or banks of terminals, are not connected to each other in any way, unless you wire them to be so. When the switch is thrown, each pole's common connects internally to it's respective 'throw' terminal, depending on switch position.

    I strongly recommend using a cheap multimeter to discover how any unfamiliar switch works, and to confirm that a given switch actually functions as expected before soldering it in. Set the meter to continuity check (beep). First goal is to find the common(s), then to chart a map, labeling the rest of the terminals on each pole, and their position numbers.

    A push-pull pot has an attached DPDT switch, or double pole, double throw. It has two poles (two commons - NOT connected despite the label in the above post), and two other terminals for each pole. When the switch is down, each common connects internally to one of it's terminals. When Up, the other terminal.

    A 5-way superswitch may look very different, and it's quite powerful, but it's nothing more than a 4P5T. Four banks, each with it's common, and five different positions, each with it's own terminal, for each bank.

    An S-1 is a 4P2T. With the two throws (positions), it's similar to a push-pull or simple on-off DPDT mini toggle, except that there are two more poles.

    The S-1 can be confusing, because unlike most of the other switches, it's not symmetrical. You need to understand which are the 'up' terminals, and which are the 'down'. If you orient the switch differently than is shown on a wiring diagram, the wires cannot just be placed to right or left of the common, because it changes when the switch is positioned differently. Because of this, all my S-1 diagrams carefully color-code the terminals. In the diagram above, Greens are commons, and they're in the center of the three terminals comprising one pole. When in the UP (disengaged) position, the greens are internally connected to the pink terminals. And when DOWN (engaged), greens are connected to the blues. Below is a picture showing what I mean about switch orientation and asymmetry.


    The wiring diagram the OP requested does not require an S-1 in either position. Coil split only requires a single pole (aka half a push-pull). Series switching, wired as shown, only requires two poles. I suggested push-pulls instead because they're less expensive, but if you want to have the switches in place in case you want to change to more complex wiring later, or if you just like the feel of the push-push, then by all means use S1s.

    Odd Fender fact: The Fender American Deluxe Tele (PDF wiring diagram) uses an S1 to do the series switch. I suspect it was pure marketing - the S1 is different from the more typical 4-way (as found on the Baja for ex), and seems more 'deluxe' with it's push-push action, and 'mysterious' functionality. They could have done the job with a simple push-pull pot. What's even more odd to me is that they wired it up to use three of the four poles, even though they only needed two. Justifying the need for the S1? The extra pole is a no-op, and it can easily be rewired to work with two poles.


    * On-on-on mini-toggles break the model somewhat. They're quite useful, but the middle position does not have it's own terminal(s). Out of scope for this discussion.


    Screen Shot 2019-08-23 at 02.23.46 PM.png
     
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  7. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Afflicted

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    I pulled it from a very quick google image search of push pull pot.
    I am not whipping up pics of pots. I actually think that image came from Fralin a website.
    I wish I had your skills moosie. I always hope you will add to any wiring threads. You have this stuff down.
     
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  8. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Well, I would expect Fralin to be accurate. I wonder if it's just poor choice of wording, and it's meant to say that each of the commons is always connected to *something* - ie. one of the terminals on it's respective pole. That's true, of course.
     
  9. ovation23

    ovation23 TDPRI Member

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    So, I just finished wiring everything according to the diagram, but I’m getting a crazy amount of him. I can’t seem to locate the problem/source. I know that it’s definitely not the cable or the amp (I’ve tried other guitars through the same setup), I used copper shielding tape in all the cavities, and I used a multimeter to test for continuity (pretty sure I’m doing that right). Any other suggestions? Should I be looking for anything in particular? Thanks!
     
  10. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Hum? Triple check all grounds. Make sure you don't have any bit of shielding material that's not grounded.
     
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