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Will this work? Diagram of SH config + 4-way with S1 switch for comment

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by cowboyjim, May 3, 2016.

  1. cowboyjim

    cowboyjim TDPRI Member

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    This is my first go at this so be gentle.

    Hopefully all you clever techs out there will give this a look.

    This 4-way switch config with a S1 on the humbucker is in my mind a possibility.

    I would be really grateful for some feedback on this and if there are errors in the design I would be more than happy for some technical pointers.
    Any comments on improving this will also be accepted on my part as a bonus.

    (S1 switch actual wiring has been displayed to the left)

    GuitarTeleWiring01.jpg
     
  2. JohnE

    JohnE TDPRI Member

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    Not a bad idea.

    Maybe try using the attached official seymour duncan schematic as a reference. (I have included a diag to include the 4-way order that you have shown)


    All the Best



    TcastWir.jpg
     
  3. cowboyjim

    cowboyjim TDPRI Member

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    Many thanks JohnE

    It does make more sense
    I have redone the layout as per your suggestion and also tidied up the drawing

    Look forward to getting more comments from yourself and other TDPRI wiring experts




    TelecasterNew01.jpg
     
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  4. Peter Rabbit

    Peter Rabbit Tele-Holic

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    You really don't need an expensive S1 for that switching - any DPDT will do, toggle, push/push, etc.
     
  5. cowboyjim

    cowboyjim TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to comment Peter Rabbit.

    I understand what you are saying and totally agree.

    It was mainly for aesthetic reasons that I choose the S1 switch.
    What I particularly liked was the way the push/push function was discreetly enclosed in the volume knob.
    Out of the way and not prone to accidental disturbance.
     
  6. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    First, welcome to the forum! Yours is the most nicely done first attempt I've ever seen.

    Looks good to me. I usually redraw things like this so I don't get confused. This was no exception, and I figured I may as well post it in case one more way of looking at it helps. (Of course you still need the bridge ground. I forgot to draw that.)

    As said, you only need a DPDT push/pull or toggle, but I totally get using the S1 for aesthetics. I do the same. If it were mine, I'd probably throw a coil splitter in there, on a mini-toggle placed between the pots.


    Screen Shot 2016-05-07 at 6.09.31 PM.png
     
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  7. cowboyjim

    cowboyjim TDPRI Member

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    That's a great help moosie

    Really like the idea of the 'coil splitter on a mini-toggle placed between the pots'.

    The other thing that is of interest to me is the way you have wired in the tone capacitor between the tone and volume pots without the direct link (blue) that I had in my drawing.
    Is there any advantage or tone difference doing it this way ?
    Also you use a .02 as opposed to my .047 ?
     
  8. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    The tone circuit is exactly equivalent in terms of ordering of components. From volume pot, through to ground, you just need a pot and a cap in series. Any order will do.

    The .02uf wasn't commentary. It's just what I copied/pasted from another of my drawings. Personal choice. Higher value cap is darker (muddier?) at full roll-off, but the sweep is also different. With .047 I never want to roll off much, because it gets too muddy, too quickly, for me. With the .02, or .015, I feel I have more useable sweep. But this is the opinion of a guy who plays neck 90% of the time, with tone no-load-ed out of the circuit.

    I'd also put in a treble bleed, and a no-load tone pot -- again, personal choice.

    Let us know if you need assistance with the coil split diagram. In case you have no imagination (really it's just a thin excuse for posting a pic of my baby), here's what the control plate looks like with the mini-toggle. You can orient it to move up/down, or front/back. Whatever's more intuitive.

    Not relevant, but in case you're wondering, mine isn't a splitter. It's a blower: pickup selection is retained, but vol and tone are excused from playing. Straight-to-jack sound.

    _body in case.JPG
     
  9. cowboyjim

    cowboyjim TDPRI Member

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    Again, thanks for your help moosie

    I take your comment about "ordering of components".
    Does the tone/cap example in your drawing reflect 'treble bleed'. (Sorry, I have a bit of knowledge .... but no quite enough)

    I liked the idea of the No-Load tone control so much I ordered one today. Also I think I will try out various cap values and see which one works best for me.

    That would be great if you could show me a coil split diagram.
    On your control plate: Did you have the mini-toggle hole drilled or did you buy the control plate complete.
    From what I can find, its the Modern Tele Plus that has the same control plate as your picture.
    Having difficulty locating one in the UK. May have to look further afield.
     
  10. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Control plates are easy to drill. Just use a punch or similar so the bit doesn't wander. Or... Marc Rutters makes great hardware. I'm sure he'd drill an extra hole if you asked. And yes he ships to the UK.

    Treble bleed is a cap, or a cap and a resistor, connected across the hot, and the center terminals of the volume pot. It doesn't have anything to do with the tone pot. Without, you may notice losing treble when turning down the volume. T/B is designed to counteract that. The exact recipe is personal taste. It can require experimentation with cap and resistor values to keep a proper sweep on the pot.

    I'm on my phone now. I'll try to post a split diagram tonight.
     
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  11. cowboyjim

    cowboyjim TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for your advice about treble bleed.
    I now understand the principle behind it and will experiment with this shortly.

    I have now received my 'no-load tone pot' and have incorporated it into my drawing with your layout suggestion.
    Hopefully I have got this right.

    So, just before I get my soldering iron out, marks out of 10 ..............


    TelecasterNew02.jpg
     
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  12. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Looks fine, and I just realized I forgot to post that diagram. Oops. Later today, hopefully.
     
  13. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Here's a fresh diagram. Same as before, but I added my preferred treble bleed, and a coil split switch.

    Treble bleeds always connect across those two volume lugs, but the cap and resistor values may differ, and I've shown it in series, where most recipes are in parallel. Some just use a .001µf cap, alone. You need to figure out what you like best. I feel that mine is "invisible". It makes the tone stay constant, no matter where the volume pot is. But I figured this out for a guitar with two single coils, and a pair of 250k pickups.

    The way I've drawn it, the coil split works only with the S1 OFF. The South coil is shorted to ground. If the S1 is ON, it doesn't matter what position the coil split toggle is in. It does nothing.


    Screen Shot 2016-05-13 at 8.16.21 PM.png
     
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  14. cowboyjim

    cowboyjim TDPRI Member

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    Thanks moosie, that's a great help.

    Really like the coil split solution.
     
  15. cowboyjim

    cowboyjim TDPRI Member

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    Finally got it all finished.

    Redid shielding in all cavities with copper tape.

    All pickup positions sound different.
    Bridge pickup sounds very lonely though. I will probably replace it with a slim P90.
    So, Seymour Duncan APTL-3JD for sale. London UK

    Switched control position for better access to S1.

    The No Load Tone pot suggested by moosie works a treat. Tones are much more defined.


    GuitarTeleFinalPOST.JPG
     
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  16. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Nice!
     
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