Will Fender "Tonemaster" the lineup in 2020...?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by stantheman, Oct 15, 2019.

  1. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    If you're happy with an amp you'd probably not replace it, but consider someone who didn't have a Twin and is looking to buy one. A 33lb Twin?
     
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  2. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    @muchxs - funny. I can’t stand small tweed breakup. Love Deluxe cleans. I’m ok with Bassman just overdriving. But I’ll take it the breakup of a Deluxe Reverb or Super Reverb any day.
     
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  3. Ironwolf

    Ironwolf Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    A couple of the tweed models (Bassman!) would be welcome.
     
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  4. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Here's where I'm comin' from:

    I don't like "breakup" that's halfway there. I like to dial in JCM800 style overdrive. If you think that's too much... that's why your guitar has a volume knob. It's easy to surf in and out of "breakup" with touch and guitar volume. That's as long as you have the right amp...

    '60s and '70s Fender EQ isn't right for overdrive, not unless you stick an overdrive in front of it. Overdrives aren't transparent. They add grit and tweeze the EQ.

    And, like I said,

    "Pedals are for mopeds."

    It's not that difficult to get a great classic rock overdrive from a more or less stock '60s or '70s Fender amp. Tweeze the EQ. Add gain. The resources to do that are inside the amp, no pedals required.


    As an engineer and a former advertising professional I can tell this thing was "engineered" by the marketing department. Having participated in more design focus groups than I care to count, it's my job to point out the zits and warts on this thing.

    Marketing guys said,

    "Make it look like a vintage Fender. Make it act like a vintage Fender."

    Engineers likely said,

    "That's dumb."

    Here are the dumb parts:

    For starters, it doesn't even begin to take advantage of the assets of modeling technology.

    Don't want an LCD display to display menus on the front? Put it on the back.

    It should do more, a lot more.

    Want a Deluxe Reverb and a Super Reverb and a tweed Bassman?

    Why not?

    It's still too big. It's not necessary for it to have controls for two channels on the front. If it had access to the modeling section you could set up two or three or two or three hundred virtual channels.

    Give me a footswitch to cue and take my virtual channels.

    Set the model up using the control on the back, tweak it in with the controls on the front.

    Put one knob and a display where the "attenuator" is. I'm willing to trade off the dubious assets of solid state or digital overdrive and that attenuator. They tell me the attenuator makes it act more like a tube amp. Yeah, right.

    If you can't make a modeling amp do what you need it to do with its own software you need to design a better modeling amp.

    It should be the size of a Princeton Reverb. It's not necessary for it to be any larger. Again, we see the marketing people at work. It doesn't need to look like a vintage Deluxe, not unless they're attempting to snooker old curmudgeons like me.

    And, oh my, Fender must have some hungry shareholders. I can do the same trick with a Boss FDR-1 (roughly $150 retail) plugged into an old Crate Powerblock or reasonable facsimile (roughly $150 "street"). That leaves me with $500 left over for an Eminence Lil' Texas in a compact pine cabinet. I probably still have change left over for a Boss FBM-1. and a Joyo "tweed" pedal. Maybe a Radial "Vox" character pedal...

    Oh.

    "Pedals are for mopeds."
     
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  5. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    @muchxs - I disagree with much of what you said.

    But then that's what makes this fun.

    I only use drive pedals to get louder and more focused (not to be always-on). And I love to use a BF/SF style Fender cranked to 7-8. My guitar volume lives about 6-7.

    More OD - turn up guitar. More OD and a little volume lift - turn up guitar more. Singing sustain and more lift/cut through? Cue the SD1.

    I prefer BF/SF voicing and breakup to tweeds.

    Re: the design of the Tonemasters. They're aimed at someone different than you. I don't want a menu of choice every time I turn on my amp. I just want a sound and feel I like and predict. The look of old Fenders makes me warm and fuzzy. So I like the cosmetics. They sound and feel just like the best SF/BF or reissue tube ones I've tried.

    To shorten a long story. Our last show we took home $80. Split 4 ways. But really just going into the recording kitty - that's about 2 hours of studio time, baby! It was raining. Our rehearsal is down a long, windy, slippery concrete staircase that - you guessed it - gets wet when it rains. A hand truck is tough because of twists, turns and length of the staircase. Grabbed my TMDR. Easy carry up to the surface. Drive to venue. Park block and a half away (loading zone in front of venue full already). Lug amp, guitar and gigbag the block and a half. Then, you guessed it, down a very long staircase to the bar (one of 3 in a large subterranean bowling alley). Set up for 15 minutes. Rock for an hour. Tear down in 5-10. The touring band was great so we stayed for their whole set then a drink after. Then reverse the whole sequence back to studio, then home. Keeping original rock alive a the local level.

    The TM series is a homerun for me, to be honest.

    I'm sure the are not for everyone but rather than a compromise, they nailed everything I need and want.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  6. Rev Hoodoo

    Rev Hoodoo TDPRI Member

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    Had a number of the "does dozens of amps" products and while some could get in the ball park, none of them nailed a BF Twin tone. As far as controls and such, if you want multiple displays, hundreds of settings, ultimate flexibility then you've got a lot to choose from. But a significant segment of the market likes what Fender delivered here. I'm obviously one of those people. I've owned a lot of primo vintage Fender amps. Between maintenance, cost, weight and a diminishing supply of quality tubes coupled with the high dollar value in some cases it became impractical to haul them out to gigs. I don't really enjoy having that much of my focus on any individual piece of equipment. The gear are tools for making music. For me these Tone Masters nail the sound I need, have a very reasonable cost, are easy to transport, are aesthetically pleasing in looks, and I can plug in and be running in minutes. I grant you if you have a favorite high end modeler and have it perfectly dialed in for your needs you're well served by that. People are different.

    But a lot of us happy Tone Master users are not ignorant, have not been bamboozled, are not unsophisticated, lacking in tech savvy or short in understanding how these things are designed and operate. None of that matters to my audience when I plug in and deliver a good show. These new Fenders allow me to do that. Now if I want to twiddle away with esoteric settings and options I can do that at home on my iMac and endlessly entertain myself. But I'm finding the pull of a great BF era style amp that sounds great is getting me to play more and fiddle less. That works for me. YMMV, nothing wrong with either perspective.
     
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  7. gkterry

    gkterry Tele-Holic

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    Biggest improvement to the line would be a bit of a price cut. I have a hard time thinking a SS amp should cost nearly as much as a tube amp. Pretty sure transistors don't cost any where near the price of a tube.
     
  8. Telecastoff1

    Telecastoff1 Tele-Holic

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    "If I was on the board (bored) of directors I'd already have the plans on the boat table...
    This ain't Grampa's Zodiac anymore. This stuff is so good I feel bad for Roadies because it looks like the
    only Touring they'll be doing will be with Mayflower come 2020.

    Think about this: Every Amp You EVER dreamed of having under 35 lbs. that's what's coming.
    Maybe...the Super Reverb might top the scales at a whopping 40 lbs.:D"

    So, who's going to repair these digital amps when they start going down at showtime, in the studio or on the road? Will these become $1k+ disposable amps? Better get the local techs up to speed on repairing digital technology. It seems that some digital items have a set lifespan akin to that of a light bulb.
     
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  9. claes

    claes Tele-Holic

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    Yes, in a way. it is a good sounding pedal but it doesn't mimic the gain on my 5F2. And I recomend that pedal all the time.

    But i've thought long and hard about how f++++ng hard can it be to emulate a champ amp?
    I'm guessing they haven't tried. They try to emulate "a tube amp", not a specific one and quit when they think it sounds good enough.

    It ought to be easier to emulate 3 tube gainstages than six or seven.
     
  10. stantheman

    stantheman Doctor of Teleocity

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    Listen...wait for the hand signal person...OK? All right.
    None of this would ever have happened without the cooperation of Boss/Roland who have been working with FMIC since their "Fender" stomp boxes. Remember The Reverb 3 Knob, The Bassman and The Deluxe Reverb boxes? Who do you think engineered those little gems?
    Boss/Roland has almost reached The Summit of Peavey reliance (and The Angels sing). I have NEVER heard about a JC-120 failure at any time OR any place.
    Now I LOVE and I adore the Blues Cube Artist BUT as I said previously I'm NOT shelling out $300 Clams for ANY Tone Module (especially after buying my Bandit 65 for $100.00) That said
    after THREE vintage Fender 80 Watt (1 Twin Reverb w/Altecs, 1 Dual Showman Reverb w/EVM-12L's in a Fender 212 small box, and another Dual Showman Reverb w/Black Widows in a second Fender 212 small box...whew...this is almost as bad as carrying them.) I think I get the 80 Watt thing.
    These Amps are REAL. These ARE Fender Twin Reverbs.


    Will they outlast a Peavey?
    I doubt anything will outlast anything that came out of 711 A Street.
    But only time will tell.

    FWIW there's a name that deserves enshrinement in Cleveland and Nashville.
    Hartley Peavey
     
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  11. bftfender

    bftfender Friend of Leo's

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    you are right, need 1 more.. Optimized-southload1 (2).jpg
     
  12. Mexitele Blues

    Mexitele Blues Tele-Holic

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    You are now re-reading this in Gilbert Godfried's voice.
     
  13. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    It's all the boldflace.
     
  14. gridlock

    gridlock Friend of Leo's

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    Handwired ‘63 Vibroverb RI (Original Tube Circuit)

    Handwired ‘63 Vibroverb RI (Original Tube Circuit)

    Handwired ‘63 Vibroverb RI (Original Tube Circuit)

    Handwired ‘63 Vibroverb RI (Original Tube Circuit)

    Handwired ‘63 Vibroverb RI (Original Tube Circuit)

    Handwired ‘63 Vibroverb RI (Original Tube Circuit)

    Handwired ‘63 Vibroverb RI (Original Tube Circuit)
     
  15. dalezjc

    dalezjc TDPRI Member

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    And the resale value of SS and modeling amps is horrible. Been there done that.
     
  16. cbh5150

    cbh5150 Tele-Meister

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    IIRC one of the Fender reps on another forum said that they have plans to do exactly that, but did not elaborate on what the next possible models will be. I would think they would go one step below with a Princeton, and one step above with a Super.

    Would be interesting to see them put out a SuperSonic. Or how about bringing back the Machete? :p
     
  17. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

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    It'd be cool if they did a Super Six.
     
  18. Kerberos

    Kerberos Tele-Holic

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    Ohhh...Yeah....Super Reverb! But man...they would sell a ton of little Tonemaster Princtons...
     
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  19. Ironwolf

    Ironwolf Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    '57 Tweed Custom Deluxe 12 watt 5E3.

    If it nails it like the TM twin I bought does, it will bring the tweeds back all by itself.
     
  20. tele12

    tele12 Friend of Leo's

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    I see this amp the same way you do.
    The sad part is they could have added a massive amount of functionality by just using the 4 button footswitch they use with all of their modern amps.
    Include a tuner, just needs the footswitch display, make the different power settings controled by the footswitch.
    Multiple amp models and speaker IRs controlled by the footswitch. Add a looper.
     
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