Wide Range Humbucker Destruction and Reincarnation (longish w/ pics)

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by jrdamien, Oct 18, 2012.

  1. Telenator

    Telenator Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    It is indeed a different tone.

    More focused with tighter lows and smooth highs.

    Very articulate with excellent note separation.

    Your pickup sounds very similar to our MOD1.

    Listen to our sound clips and you'll hear it. www.telenator.com
     
  2. Samsen

    Samsen Tele-Meister

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    Sounds good! Definitely has that bright WRHB vibe going there. The unpotted nature of your p'up probably contributes a lot to the 'openness' of sounds. Probably best to pot it lightly (if high gain usage is anticipated).
     
  3. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    The best part as telenator often says is the way it cuts thru a mix. The stocks were very hard to dial in to get them to do that. When i did it the tone was much improved, but the way it cuts changes so radically it's hard to find the words. But nite and day will have to suffice. I ordered some alnico 2 because the mags i put in the bridge i'm unsure about, but i think they are A5. And i really like A2 in bridge pups and think it will round out the brightness a bit. And by the way, i'm going to add some windings to it today or tomorrow B4 the mags arrive, so if anyone has an opinion on the following question i'd love to hear it. The bridge is 8.25k and neck is around 7.8k. Right now the bridge is too low compared to the neck but i don't want to wind it till it loses that single coil sort of kraaaang it has. How far would you go? It doesn't need a lot to keep up with the neck, so I'm thinking 600 ohms per coil to give it another 1.2k overall. Thoughts?
     
  4. Jipes

    Jipes Tele-Meister

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    Sounds pretty good to me maybe not as fat as my Wide Range but they have a nice twang sound apparently !
     
  5. jrdamien

    jrdamien Tele-Meister

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    I don't know. Went down to the shop today and I and the amp repair guy and guitar repair guy listened to your all your clips and the Creamery clips. They all said it sounded like your Mod II but mostly like the Creamery pups. Again this makes the most sense because of the Alnico 2.

    Either way. Super pups and I'm going to wind some regular sized humbuckers of similar design this weekend to further play with magnet type and length.
     
  6. jrdamien

    jrdamien Tele-Meister

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    I'd wind the bridge to about 11.5ish and the neck to 9.5ish.
     
  7. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    I was leaving the neck alone. I like them low output. In any case, i wound it just a bit more, almost 1k from 8.25 to 9.15. I think that will do the trick, as it was just a bit lower than i'd like. Normally i'd prefer over 10k on the bridge, but i feel this guitar just sounds good with lower output pickups. If i decide different i'll just add more. I also almost lost the inner wind ! I was able to salvage it luckily or i'd have had to remove it all and go back and wind it from the start. I just ADDED windings. No way i'd wind them fully by hand ! I'd be at it for a week !
     
  8. Telenator

    Telenator Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    It can be tough to tell from our sound clips. I did those with a dead flat EQ on all setting to try and give a fair and honest representation. You should hear MOD1 when the EQ is dialed in!
     
  9. jrdamien

    jrdamien Tele-Meister

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    Sound clips are always tough. What amp? What player? What body wood and strings and pick and eq and...

    Que sera. Good is good.
     
  10. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    To me, clips are pretty much useless because i find the even bigger part of the tone equation cannot be heard.....dynamics/feel/touch, whatever you wanna call it. it's how well you can manipulate the tone and volume with your playing style. And thats not counting taking into account the rest of the rig. Pickups are just a small part of it from strings and pick, wood, the guitar's individual voice/character, to cable, tubes, amp itself, speaker. It can give you a idea of what an amp is like because it's such a huge part of the overall tone, but thats also tough and fails when it comes to dynamics. And like telenator said, and i'm paraphrasing to some degree, "it's not the sound of the RI WRHB by itself i don't like, it's the the fact that it gets lost in a mix". Yet another thing clips can't divulge and to me thats also much like dymanics in that i find it more important than the tone itself. So for me at least, clips are futile ay best.
     
  11. Telenator

    Telenator Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    I wouldn't say sound clips are useless if they're presented in a simple fashion.

    If the clip has been thoroughly processed to the point where you can't identify the pickup any more, even with the make and model in the description, then the person making the clip has gone too far.

    How far is too far? That's a tough call. A pickup maker wants his wares to sound real good. We tried to do ours in such a way that it's an honest representation, and so far, our customers feel they get a better sound than what they hear in our sound clips. That feels just about right to me.
     
  12. Samsen

    Samsen Tele-Meister

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    Sure, there are a lot of variables in making an honest sound clip of a pickup and the amp is an important one but if the viewer has a real world idea of how the amp actually sounds, you can get a pretty good idea of the tonality of the pickup. That's why a lot of gear demos tend to use popular amps such as the DRRI or an AC15. People generally have an idea of how these amps should sound as they've often heard one in real life, so can get an idea of the pickup's tone from sound clips. Taking this thread as an example, I have no idea how an Ampeg Gemini I sounds in real life, so cannot with good confidence say anything much about JRevel's clip. It sounds good/pleasant for sure, and I can say that it sounds pretty bright for a HB but cannot go further than that.
     
  13. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    But like i said, beyond that theres dynamics/feel/touch which is the biggest problem. Thats 100% invisible in clips. It's also #1 most important thing to me and certainly many others. I'm sure there are lots of people who crank distortion all the time and never touch thier volume, and to them theres much more value in clips. But to tell you the truth, a pickup IMO is impossible. I could use different guitars and amps and make a junk no name pickup sound fantastic with the right gear and visa versa for a great pickup.
     
  14. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    Well, thought i'd post back with results on the Alnico 2 mags i just received and put in the bridge pickup. I calipered the ones i put in the neck and i swore they were the diameter that i then ordered, but they were a bit small. They could slip down thru the bottom if i didn't use glue or something. So i put a bead of hot glue along the bottom to hold them in for now till i knew if i liked them, then i'd glue them more permanently. Looks like i'll be doing that !

    Sound is even better than it was with whatever those mags i used before, plus because of the fact i added some windings till it was a bit over 9k. You guys who are afraid to mess with yours, this is really a simple mod, at least the mags. You don't need to add windings, but i wanted the bridge to be a little better balanced with the neck. With the mags i got on ebay which are alnico 2 with a dimension of .187 X.625, you can literally do this mod without even removing the pickup from the guard ! The hidden screws can be removed from the bottom and the top of course from the top. Then the mags just drop right in from the bottom. You just need something to hold them in place. you could coat them in beeswax or glue them, whatever you can come up with. Maybe even a bit of clear tape around them so they fit tight. Just make sure that the magnet polarity is all the same on one coil and the opposite on the other. Then do the same polarity scenario on the other pickup. Now you have far better pickups for a few minutes or an hour's work and under $12 ! (i got 18 alnico 2's for $11.25)

    The tone is excellent, but the biggest improvement is in the mix. They cut thru worlds better. You can't beat the price either ! I used alnico 5 by the way for the neck because 2 is rather softer and less bright, perfect for the bridge but maybe not enough brightness for the neck. The bridge is so much less harsh than before and the middle position is now even better.
     
  15. CAAD8N8

    CAAD8N8 Tele-Holic

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    Hmmmm....sounds intriguing at such a small price. Even an electronic dummy like me is considering the upgrade, at such a small price
     
  16. Telenator

    Telenator Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Try cutting those down to .420 in length with the stock 8k wind. Magic!
     
  17. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    You know, i thought about that when i did the neck with those A5's (longer than the A2's i just got) because i recall years ago how there was a GP article where someone said if you cut the screws on a humbucker flush to the plate, it cuts the highs down and i wondered if it would do the same with slug magnets. But I'm glad i didn't if that would be the outcome because the neck pickup turned out to be about perfect as highs go.
    But the A2's i got for the bridge are flush with the plate. Are you saying .420 because that would make them flush with the bottom of the coil? And why do this? I mean, what is the result? And what about 9k...will that matter?
     
  18. Telenator

    Telenator Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    The problem with simply sliding magnets into the stock coils of the MIM WRHBs is that you end up with too much magnet for the coil size. After several months of experimenting, we found .420 to be the magic number. Some of our competitors are even shorter.

    There comes a point where a rod magnet will not hold a stable charge when it gets too short for it's diameter.

    Where magnetic stability is concerned, there's a ratio of length vs diameter for alnico magnets. When the length gets to short, (in relation to a given diameter) the magnet cannot maintain it's magnetic field for long periods of time. It's one of the design parameters where pickups are concerned.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  19. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    Thanks. I'll have to think about this, as they sound good right now and i have to decide whether i want to risk them losing their charge for a bit better tone. I'll probably just do it since it's easy to throw new ones in there.
     
  20. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    Well Mr T-nator, i gotta thank you again. I did the .420 mod as it shall be called, and darned if you weren't right. Ate thru a bunch of cut-off wheels, but the bridge PU sounds so sweet and balanced i'm going to eat thru a lot more wheels and do the neck PU !

    I must admit, you know these WRHB's well ! By the way, one huge change going from bar mag to slugs is the harmonic content on the attack just goes thru the roof. That grindy sqawky rich attack is there in spades.
     
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