Wide neck mod options: big lou experience?

[parsnip]

Hi All,

After playing for the last 35 years or so, I've realized that my big hands might be happier w/ a wider neck. Playing bluegrass on my old wide martin, and reflecting on how it feels and what I'm able to do close to the nut there made me start thinking about how it might be to have similar wider spacing on my tele. My tele is not a fancy guitar, but a workhorse for me (cv 50s). Looking at wide necked options I see Warmouth, and particularly Big Lou. Leaning Big Lou. In part because I like the name. But also because I can't see putting a $350-450 neck on a $275 guitar.

Michael at Big Lou has been very responsive, said it will work.

"A neck swap with one of our necks will require a little bit of shaping to fit in the pocket of your guitar. It’s better to shave a neck down to fit your pocket rather than having to shim one that is too loose.

The heel of all of our necks are rounded rather than square and they measure 2.33 inches in width. They are 1.4 inches thick and 4.25 inches deep into the pocket for the Strat neck and 1.1 inches thick and 4 inches deep for the tele neck." seems like it'll work. (round can go in a tele, square cannot go in a strat, right?)

Research says I'd need to do a little sanding off on the sides, which doesn't really scare me. But I may be getting in over my head. I'm handy, have a modest shop, but I'm not a trained luthier.

1. Has anyone here recently had experience with mounting a big lou neck on a squier/fender tele body?
2. Any tips/warnings/admonitions?
3. If this goes well, I realized I might be able to build a fairly inexpensive strat w/ a wide neck too. (Been meaning to get a strat for 30 years). The only part that scares me is mounting the neck.

Thanks all!

 

[eallen]

Well, realize the dimensions of a standard neck will tell you the work ahead. A standard neck heal is 2.187" wide & the big lou is 2.33" so just over 1/8" of material that must be removed equally and centered to maintain bridge alignment.

A standard tele neck thickness is 1" while the lou is 1.1". To maintain correct saddle geometry the neck pocket will need to be .1" deeper, not quite an 1/8", & perfectly level. Not an amount you sand away.

The standard tele neck pocket is 3" into the body while the lou extends 4" in. That means increasing the pocket length by a full inch, which is into the pickup cavity. None of that is a problem if you make a template and use a router and pattern bit. You may have to also expand the neck pup route and shift it back.

No matter what body you put a wide neck on, if it is a standard tele it will require the same thing. It won't be hard to make a routing template once you have the neck. Just trace around it on the template board at the correct length & cut it to fit. If you are a wood worker and experience with routers it's no biggie. Just make sure your template aligns to the centerline of the bridge. Also make sure the nut will be 25.5" away from the high e saddle at the pocket depth indicated and adjust the depth until it is.

Eric

 

[hopdybob]

if you have a neck shape that suits you, than you have one thing
but body shape does something to.
the position it gives you when sitting ore standing up and where the nut is position t.
the further you have to reach the more difficult your wrist etc has to work to fret.

i have a L6 copy with the same scale as a strat.
and i have a cort S2600

https://www.guitar-list.com/sites/default/files/styles/model_display/public/gearpics/cort-s2600-early.jpg?itok=dzf2E8Ok

the cort is easier to reach the nut in my case

 

[parsnip]

if you have a neck shape that suits you, than you have one thing
but body shape does something to.
the position it gives you when sitting ore standing up and where the nut is position t.
the further you have to reach the more difficult your wrist etc has to work to fret.

i have a L6 copy with the same scale as a strat.
and i have a cort S2600

https://www.guitar-list.com/sites/default/files/styles/model_display/public/gearpics/cort-s2600-early.jpg?itok=dzf2E8Ok

the cort is easier to reach the nut in my case

That's an interesting point re reaching and body shape. I grew up w/ dreadnaughts, so every electric I've played feels pretty breezy in that regard. Your cort looks very ergonomic though, like my 90s carvin in a way. super player.

 

[Freeman Keller]

My humble suggestion. Download the TDowns drawing at the top of the page and get a couple of copies printed. Lay out you neck on the drawing using the exact measurements of the neck and bridge that you plan to use. Draw you desired nut width and the string offsets that you like at the nut. Your bridge (and maybe the drilling on the plans) will determine the spacing at the saddles, connect that to the spacing at the nut. Determine if you have the offset you like all the way up the neck, pay particular attention at the body joint. Figure out how much material you will need to remove from the sides of the neck pocket so you can make a routing template. Recognize that once your routed the pocket you are committed.

Most of us who like wide nuts also like wider string spacing at the saddles which you can't do with a tele. Once you've laid it all out on paper you can decide if its going to be acceptable.

ps - I'm not sure what they are talking about the rounded part of their necks. The 4.25 inch statement makes no sense. As you know tele and strat necks are different. Strat necks work in a tele, the opposite is not true. Of course if you are routing a new pocket you can change that too. You'll probably need to make a new pick guard or change yours, and double check the pole spacing on your neck pickup.

 

[parsnip]

Well, realize the dimensions of a standard neck will tell you the work ahead. A standard neck heal is 2.187" wide & the big lou is 2.33" so just over 1/8" of material that must be removed equally and centered to maintain bridge alignment.

A standard tele neck thickness is 1" while the lou is 1.1". To maintain correct saddle geometry the neck pocket will need to be .1" deeper, not quite an 1/8", & perfectly level. Not an amount you sand away.

The standard tele neck pocket is 3" into the body while the lou extends 4" in. That means increasing the pocket length by a full inch, which is into the pickup cavity. None of that is a problem if you make a template and use a router and pattern bit. You may have to also expand the neck pup route and shift it back.

No matter what body you put a wide neck on, if it is a standard tele it will require the same thing. It won't be hard to make a routing template once you have the neck. Just trace around it on the template board at the correct length & cut it to fit. If you are a wood worker and experience with routers it's no biggie. Just make sure your template aligns to the centerline of the bridge. Also make sure the nut will be 25.5" away from the high e saddle at the pocket depth indicated and adjust the depth until it is.

Eric

This is really helpful. If I understand it, the routing of the body for the 4 vs 3" heel shouldn't be needed. I think the big lou measurements for heel length aren't to where the pocket ends, but to where the heel ends, which extends a bit beyond the pocket. Does that make sense? Pasting the measurements below.

 

[Freeman Keller]

One more thought after looking at your picture. I consider 1-3/4 a "wide" neck on an acoustic with 1-11/16 being more or less "normal". 1-7/8 is common on acoustic 12 strings, 2 inches is the default for nylon string classicals. Going that wide on an electric will make it pretty hard to thumb fret the low E string. If you haven't played guitars with necks that fat you might want to do it first.

 

[bender66]

Glad you brought this up parsnip. I have a Big Lou tele neck (lefty). I knew it was wider but never thought of the added thickness.

 

[Buzzgrowl]

I've bought 1.75" nut necks from Warmoth and Musikraft. Both had sharp-ish fret ends and on both the nuts where cut too high. I think this is normal to allow personalization.

Do make sure you have both nut and fret files - proper luthier stuff.

If you liked rolled fretboards, don't get a one piece pre-finished maple neck and expect to diy the roll.

 

[parsnip]

Glad you brought this up parsnip. I have a Big Lou tele neck (lefty). I knew it was wider but never thought of the added thickness.

Did you install the neck on your tele? how'd it go?

 

[parsnip]

One more thought after looking at your picture. I consider 1-3/4 a "wide" neck on an acoustic with 1-11/16 being more or less "normal". 1-7/8 is common on acoustic 12 strings, 2 inches is the default for nylon string classicals. Going that wide on an electric will make it pretty hard to thumb fret the low E string. If you haven't played guitars with necks that fat you might want to do it first.

Most definitely. Going to try to get to one I found on FB soon to see if I dig it. My hands are huge, so I think I might, but we'll see.

 

[bender66]

Did you install the neck on your tele? how'd it go?

I havent. I have a custom body from a now deceased builder for it.

I see some more knowledgable people than myself in this thread. What would a good approach be to bring that neck heel width down to spec?

 

[hopdybob]

oh, i forgot, don't forget radius.
i just can't play on a flat radius Spanish acoustic.
someone handed me a PRS silver sky SE, fit like a glove but a michael kelly 1954 tele the flat radius Compound 10.5" to 16" did not work for me.
don't misunderstand me, the michael kelly is a beautiful instrument but somehow it don't 'fit'

 

[Freeman Keller]

I havent. I have a custom body from a now deceased builder for it.

I see some more knowledgable people than myself in this thread. What would a good approach be to bring that neck heel width down to spec?

If it was my guitar here is how I would approach it. First I assume the body is routed to standard telecaster specs. I would download the TDowns plans as I said before and get a couple of prints made (Kinkos or an engineering office). It a good idea to check the printer scaling. If the body and neck are strat specs I would download one of the very good strat plans, I have a Fender factory set if you need it.

I'm going to assume the body has been routed to fender specs, 2.135 at the opening, 2.224 at the inside, 3 inche from front to back and 0.625 deep. The strat pocket has the curved back.



The uncompensated scale length is not shown on the TDowns drawing, mark a line 10.120 inches from the opening of the neck pocket (the end of the guitar). Lay the neck on the drawing with the 16th fret at the body joint (end of the pocket), confirm that the scale line is 25.5 from the nut. Trace around the heel onto the drawing, it should be to the outsides of the neck pocket and symmetrical.

Now before you start cutting anything do as I described above, draw the neck at the nut and the end (22nd fret), draw the outside edges of the fretboard. Locate the string spacing at the saddles, draw the string lines offset by the amount you like, make sure you really like what you are about to do.

Now you have a choice. Either you can enlarge the neck pocket to fit the heel or you can make the heel smaller to fit the pocket. Either is irreversible, hogging out the pocket is probably easier but means you are forever committed to that neck. Build the appropriate routing template, it will have sides that are slightly angled from front of pocket to back.

If you choose to route the body, simply clamp your template on and have at it. Make sure it is center and the correct distance from the scale just like any other neck.

If you decide to bring the heel down to fit the standard pocket you will want to build a routing template that is three inches long, 2.135 at one end and 2.224 on the other. Stick it to the heel with the best double stick tape you can get, you don't want it to move (I would probably screw the template to the heel). Take shallow passes on each side until you get the width and taper you want, make the cuts at least 5/8 (0.625) from the base of the heel, I would go about 3/4.

If you choose to modify the neck heel you will have a bit of the fretboard overhanging the top of the guitar. You'll have to futz around with pick guard if you have one (22 fret necks overhang at the end).

Fairly straightforward but kind of tedious, good luck, post the results

 

[Freeman Keller]

oh, i forgot, don't forget radius.
i just can't play on a flat radius Spanish acoustic.
someone handed me a PRS silver sky SE, fit like a glove but a michael kelly 1954 tele the flat radius Compound 10.5" to 16" did not work for me.
don't misunderstand me, the michael kelly is a beautiful instrument but somehow it don't 'fit'

According to the Big Lou website the radius is 14 inch, which is flatter than most electrics and very close to what many acoustics are.

 

[tubedude]

eallen said "A standard tele neck thickness is 1" while the lou is 1.1". To maintain correct saddle geometry the neck pocket will need to be .1" deeper, not quite an 1/8", & perfectly level. Not an amount you sand away."

I think I'd rather remove the .1" off the neck than rout the pocket.