Wicked Game - Is it really dorian?

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by Guran, Sep 24, 2009.

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  1. warmingtone

    warmingtone Tele-Holic

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    oh no...another post while typing and on the phone...

    I did say "generally" in that sentence. Some I have seen seem to equate "serial composition" techniques to the chromatic scale. The relationship to modes is that the composer not only sets out to use all 12 tones before repeating, but that he does so in a particular order. This order, like in any scale of mode creates a distinctive interval pattern, the interval design is what makes any scale have a particular quality, not the key it may be in. In atonal work, we are not looking at Key, but one could look at a particular 12-tone interval set as a characteristic "sound" or "mode"...much like the dorian or major scale or any other combination of notes has a distinctive sound.

    I said generally to qualify it as in such compositions, generally (depending on the rules employed) the order of note appearance, so the progression of intervals is somewhat "set" where as in tonal music, we can perceive things as being major and extrapolate that tonal environment regardless of order. So, conceptually there are similarities is what I was perhaps suggesting.

    ...

    Sorry if I misrepresented you...not my intention. I mentioned at the time I had not come across the term, but I ahd a feel for what it meant...since you mention it...I wiki'ed it...

    Not exactly clear by this if that means only the natural minor and major modes and relative to one another...or major minor "modes" in general.

    Still, conceptually...a mode is a set of tones with a particular interval set that can define a "tonal environment"...much as the major scale might do in a major piece for instance.

    We can readily suggest that a tune is "major"...in the same way we might well describe a tune as being Dorian, or whatever...or in a broader sense, may look at a music from a different culture that might call such a thing a "raga" say...a set of tones separated by intervals that have a characteristic sound.

    ...

    Going back to the 12-tone "serial" kinds of composition...having walked away for a sec to make coffee...

    It is not necessary for the listener to "know" what the "tone row" actually is, it is enough that they can sense the underlying "sense in it". It is only when the listener can "feel" some logic in it that it can be appreciated as music typically.

    Further, and it has been a long while, when set about trying to compose in this way while studying, it was found that if the tone row was to create identifiable triads say...the composition will be less "successful" in that the listener will start to hear these things with a "tonal ear"...well, it's a point of view that's held up in the music and the practice it would seem.

    since you asked :oops:
     
  2. ibobunot

    ibobunot Poster Extraordinaire

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    condescension: patronizing attitude or behavior

    wight - weight

    You're absolutely right!!! here's your attaboy and a gold star..... :D <---(smiley)
     
  3. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    I like condensation. Makes more sense.
     
  4. jhundt

    jhundt Doctor of Teleocity

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    enough theory, let's get serious now:

    where the heck do you guys find those smileys, anyway?
     
  5. Guran

    Guran Friend of Leo's

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    Click Go Advanced and look to the right.
     
  6. jhundt

    jhundt Doctor of Teleocity

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    oh man! finally...

    :D:D:D:D
    that makes this the best thread ever!!
     
  7. Mjark

    Mjark Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Interesting thread. I was thinking about this song yesterday.
     
  8. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

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    That WAS a great thread!
    I miss Strat a Various.
     
  9. Wailin' Tele

    Wailin' Tele Tele-Afflicted

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    Sexiest zombie I've ever seen here.
     
  10. 13ontheB

    13ontheB Tele-Afflicted

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  11. historicus146

    historicus146 Tele-Holic

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  12. Donelson

    Donelson Tele-Afflicted

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    Same changes as "Sweet Home Alabama" except that the first chord has a minor 3rd. That is, a I chord, then bVII, then IV. Over and over. No bridge.

    Nothing else there. Forget "modes", it is what it is.
     
  13. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Memo from SFAUULCRNFSH (society for the advocacy of using upper and lower case Roman numerals for scale harmony to denote major/minor)

    We call it i - bVII - IV :cool::D
     
  14. slowpinky

    slowpinky Tele-Afflicted

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    Looks like it might be turning into a 'great thread' again...:twisted:
     
  15. historicus146

    historicus146 Tele-Holic

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    why cant the song be looked at this way...

    In E....

    with a v IV I progression
     
  16. Mjark

    Mjark Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    That's what I thought although I'm not so sure now after reading through this.
     
  17. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Because the tonal center is not E, it is B and the mood is minor. It isn't really this complicated.
     
  18. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

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    Definitely Bm.
    That E (Esus to E most of the time, rarely if ever an E7) is a IV chord.
     
  19. Mjark

    Mjark Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Ha! That's why there's 3 pages of discussion and analysis. :)
     
  20. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

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    True dat! I know you're being tongue-in-cheek Mjark.
    1/2 of the thread is actually not about Wicked Game. It kinda turned into chord/scale/mode thing. There's a lot of cool info in the 3 pages.
     
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