Why would a 335 sound different than a Les Paul?

[backalleyblues]

Having played a ton of 335s and Lester’s over the years, along with full hollows and teles, strats etc-EVERYTHING affects the tone of the instrument, down to how you wrap the strings around the stop tailpiece (very subtle, but it’s there)

First off, the attack-the more anchored the bridge and tailpiece, the more focused the attack sound is. To my ears, it sounds like a “D” when the strings are fresh, and goes to a “B” when the strings are dead. With a fully hollow arch top, the attack sounds like a “K”, because of the top and the floating bridge. 335s are in between (as designed) and sound different depending on if it’s a stop tailpiece or a trapeze, with the trapeze leaning towards a full hollow, based on my experience.

The mass of the body has a bunch to do with the tone of course-I have a Lester and an SG (same year) with identical pickups (490s) and they sound radically different, Lester bassier and fuller and the SG more mids and snarl, even on the bridge pickup which is pretty much identical in placement.

The semi-hollow I have (Guild Starfire IV) has a lot less mass to its body (spruce block which is lighter), but is VERY resonant, and I know the body is contributing a bunch of overtones to the sound-it’s quite a bit richer than my Lester or SG.

If you don’t think the semi hollow body has no effect, tap on the body while it’s plugged in, and listen to it, then do the same with a Les Paul or tele, or what have you-my Starfire is quite a bit louder than my Gibbys or Fenders. It’s not as obvious as an acoustic of course, but it’s there (and with heavy distortion, not at all)

As others have mentioned, 335s feel different too-not just the body shape, but how the string reacts to your picking, a slower, rounder attack is what I hear, maybe 2 milliseconds wider than a full solid body.

YMMV…

 

[Jay Jernigan]

339 guy here. It's neither, really, or it's both, maybe, but I like them and they fit. Sound good, get controlled feedback well and aren't as big as a 335 nor as heavy as a Paul. Got one with 'buckers, one with P-90s. They aren't going anywhere except with me.

 

[Bass Butcher]

From both a logical perspective and from my listening and playing experience, I don't believe these guitars have just about any tonal differences when plugged in, assuming the same pickups are used. A 335 after all has a big solid block of wood running down the middle. So even if there's a reason why hollow body guitars with pickups should sound different than solid bodies, a 335 isn't even hollow.

I mean, if strings stretched across two tables can sound like a telecaster, why wouldn't a 335 sound like a Les Paul?
See

If anyone believes that this is incorrect, can you please either record clips of you playing exactly the same with the same electronics, same settings, same pickups, on the two separate guitars and show how it sounds different? Or explain to me in a logical sense how having hollow wings tagged onto the side of a guitar could possibly impact the amplified sound. I mean it, I'm not trying to be a "prove me wrong" provocateur here. I genuinely want to know if there's something I'm missing for how hollow wings could affect the sound, and if I hear convincing audio or logical evidence, I will change my mind.

You honestly can't hear the difference in tone in an amateur utoob 'experiment'? After the audio has been digitally processed (turning waves into ice cubes, which robs a bit of tonal nuance), most likely 'cleaned up a bit', which further degrades the original timbre and other nuances (every time you reprocess a digital audio file you sacrifice a bit of the original signal, the tonal nuances hitting the audible chopping block first and you begin introducing digital artifacts after a few operations, which further degrades the tonal quality), and then reprocessed by utoob's audio converters, which as a rule significantly alters and 'flattens out' pretty much any audio uploaded (goodbye more tonal nuances).
Even if he had started with steak it was run through at least two meat grinders before you tasted it as a McDonalds burger. The end product has lost all the flavor of the original cut.
The video has a lot more entertainment than educational value and it doesn't even have any entertainment value.

 

[Bass Butcher]

The tested guy does a poor job of making good comparisons to root out actual facts. Also, audio in a youtube video isn't that detailed, even with great speakers.

Also, he seems to confuse "sounds good" with "sounds identical." You can make nearly anything with a pickup sound cool through the right amp. 335s sound like plinky toys when played acoustically.

A 335 has a maple center block and an arched and laminated maple top and back. A Les Paul is mostly mahogany, and may or may not have a maple cap. When playing a 335 at volume, you can notice a bit of softness in the attack. The note blooms for you, which is usually heard as a bit of sweetness. A Les Paul has a much more immediate attack.

The guy in the video is a flake trying to make a living by getting 'hits' on his channel, like 99% of utoob 'content creators'. I watched a bit of it the first time I saw it in my feed and that was time wasted

 

[Bass Butcher]

339 guy here. It's neither, really, or it's both, maybe, but I like them and they fit. Sound good, get controlled feedback well and aren't as big as a 335 nor as heavy as a Paul. Got one with 'buckers, one with P-90s. They aren't going anywhere except with me.

I bought my best friend a bucker Epi 339 for xmas a couple of years ago. I liked it just fine and so does he.

 

[Bass Butcher]

Having played a ton of 335s and Lester’s over the years, along with full hollows and teles, strats etc-EVERYTHING affects the tone of the instrument, down to how you wrap the strings around the stop tailpiece (very subtle, but it’s there)

First off, the attack-the more anchored the bridge and tailpiece, the more focused the attack sound is. To my ears, it sounds like a “D” when the strings are fresh, and goes to a “B” when the strings are dead. With a fully hollow arch top, the attack sounds like a “K”, because of the top and the floating bridge. 335s are in between (as designed) and sound different depending on if it’s a stop tailpiece or a trapeze, with the trapeze leaning towards a full hollow, based on my experience.

The mass of the body has a bunch to do with the tone of course-I have a Lester and an SG (same year) with identical pickups (490s) and they sound radically different, Lester bassier and fuller and the SG more mids and snarl, even on the bridge pickup which is pretty much identical in placement.

The semi-hollow I have (Guild Starfire IV) has a lot less mass to its body (spruce block which is lighter), but is VERY resonant, and I know the body is contributing a bunch of overtones to the sound-it’s quite a bit richer than my Lester or SG.

If you don’t think the semi hollow body has no effect, tap on the body while it’s plugged in, and listen to it, then do the same with a Les Paul or tele, or what have you-my Starfire is quite a bit louder than my Gibbys or Fenders. It’s not as obvious as an acoustic of course, but it’s there (and with heavy distortion, not at all)

As others have mentioned, 335s feel different too-not just the body shape, but how the string reacts to your picking, a slower, rounder attack is what I hear, maybe 2 milliseconds wider than a full solid body.

YMMV…

Bang on. It isn't one thing, it is the aggregate of the parts (including the finish),
and how well/securely they have been fitted.

 

[SackvilleDan]

In my experience, the 335 is a little richer sounding... through my rig my ES-333 is always just about ready to climb into feedback (in a good way). That "more on the edge" sound feels better to me and I use it to my advantage on a number of songs in our set list. Swapping my LP Standard into those same songs (with the same amp, pedals, and hands) always feels a little less "alive" to me.

 

[Jay Jernigan]

I bought my best friend a bucker Epi 339 for xmas a couple of years ago. I liked it just fine and so does he.

Lovely guitars. Got the bucker years ago, when they first came out, and the P-90 during the pandammit. Bucker has a more "D" shaped neck and I would have preferred to have the coil taps on the tone control pots but minor quibbles. P-90 is darn near perfect.
The nickel on the bucker aged fast and not very pretty but I have decided to go with it.

 

[takauya]

I'd take a 335 any day of the week. LPs sound too congested in the mids. Single notes sound great on LP but chords not so much.

 

[Bass Butcher]

Lovely guitars. Got the bucker years ago, when they first came out, and the P-90 during the pandammit. Bucker has a more "D" shaped neck and I would have preferred to have the coil taps on the tone control pots but minor quibbles. P-90 is darn near perfect.
The nickel on the bucker aged fast and not very pretty but I have decided to go with it.

That Epi is exactly what I bought for my friend but it has buckers in it, same color too. I'm a p-90 junkie myself, my favorite pup for a few years now.

 

[Arfage]

This is so ridiculous. I can't believe we're all dignifying it with answers.

 

[Arfage]

I'd take a 335 any day of the week. LPs sound too congested in the mids. Single notes sound great on LP but chords not so much.

I love Les Pauls but the 335s just seem more dynamic and alive, more responsive to nuances of your hands. I have both as well as some really nice strats, and the band I'm in now (all Allman Bros.) requires humbuckers and the 335 is just a bit more soulful and has become my main guitar for this.

 

[Ringo]

I've owned Les Pauls, SGs, 335s, a L6S Midnight Special, and my brother had a Flying V.
They all sounded similar yet different to me. Play what you like and don't worry about it. If you can afford it get one of each.

 

[Bass Butcher]

An arched hollowbody with a center block is still not the same as a solid hog body. If you have identical pickups, electronics, strings, and scale length - you still have vastly different resonant bodies attached to the neck. This has a major impact on the resonant frequencies imparted to the vibrating strings. The strings do not vibrate in isolation. Some people can hear this difference more than others, but once you get a feel for the phenomena acoustically, it makes it easier to understand what happens with the vibrating strings.

You win the cookie, hands down

 

[Martian]

For years I had a ‘66 335 which I loved. I always thought the 335 was the perfect guitar. Like Bob Dylan said about Alicia Keys, “there ain’t nothing’ about her that I don’t like.” As Brookdalebill noted there’s a “smokier” quality to the sound. A Les Paul cranked up loud might (might) be more assertive and impactful but I think 335’s sound better at lower volumes. If I were to do a comparison of the two I’d have 2 players start out low on each guitar, back and forth; thinking living room volume to bigger room to small venue to larger club…
Just my opinion. I always loved the Les Paul sonically just not physically. Whereas the 335 just feels so right.

 

[Bass Butcher]

If you have an hour to spare....
They do sound different but they are as close as two differently constructed guitars can be.

I love Les Pauls but the 335s just seem more dynamic and alive, more responsive to nuances of your hands. I have both as well as some really nice strats, and the band I'm in now (all Allman Bros.) requires humbuckers and the 335 is just a bit more soulful and has become my main guitar for this.

Another winner! After all the OP is specifically bringing up tonal "nuances", whether they realize that or not. What you describe about the ES vs LP is a constant conclusion when A/B'ing them and has been for a long, long time. These youtube videos are just clickbait. The content is just the bait and/or filler for the self promotion. This is one of the sillier excuses for 'content' if you've played more than two or three different types of electrics in your life.
The youtube audio converter is also 'famous' for genericizing the uploaded audio and for that reason alone these types of A/B's are pretty much worthless.

 

[Bass Butcher]

For years I had a ‘66 335 which I loved. I always thought the 335 was the perfect guitar. Like Bob Dylan said about Alicia Keys, “there ain’t nothing’ about her that I don’t like.” As Brookdalebill noted there’s a “smokier” quality to the sound. A Les Paul cranked up loud might (might) be more assertive and impactful but I think 335’s sound better at lower volumes. If I were to do a comparison of the two I’d have 2 players start out low on each guitar, back and forth; thinking living room volume to bigger room to small venue to larger club…
Just my opinion. I always loved the Les Paul sonically just not physically. Whereas the 335 just feels so right.

'Warmer' vs 'brighter' (with the more aggressive sound that comes with that as you turn up the volume), all other things being equal. Mind you, there's nothing more fun than having an LP neck slip out of your hand while playing one sitting down and getting the headstock in the face...
I've yet to do that with an ES, lol

 

[cyclopean]

My full hollow ES225 was almost ungiggable due to feeding back. But the 335 types I've had have not been an issue. I wonder if your pickups are microphonic?

It’s a cheap epiphone i bought used from a friend for $182. But i also may play with way more gain than you.

 

[cyclopean]

when I play any of my Gibson semi-solids, at a certain volume on stage, the entire guitar begins to vibrate. The sound becomes immediately much fuller than my Les Pauls, and you can milk it to hold the sustain as long as necessary.

But there's another benefit: when they vibrate against your body. You become one with the instrument and it's inspirational. I play much better. I have two very expensive Les Pauls that I never bring on stage any longer. there is simply too much difference.

I also have a custom, L5 that I had. I would block installed in the shutter like a semi solid. It's a 057 mine anyway. It's still sounds nothing like the 335 and nothing like the last part. It is so much about a bit. It's unusable on stage because of the feedback.

Can i get a Gibson plasma?

 

[willietheweirdo]

Can i get a Gibson plasma?

Best I can do is low-melting solidbody.