Why would a 335 sound different than a Les Paul?

[IMMusicRulz]

An ES 335 is good for jazz and blues tones, and to be honest, it is a hollow body guitar, wheareas the Les Paul is more of a fully solid body guitar. The Les Paul is good for jazz and blues tones too, but a lot of rock guitarists, especially Peter Frampton, Duane Allman, Peter Green and even Keith Richards were more suited to playing Les Pauls.

 

[Swingcat]

From both a logical perspective and from my listening and playing experience, I don't believe these guitars have just about any tonal differences when plugged in, assuming the same pickups are used. A 335 after all has a big solid block of wood running down the middle. So even if there's a reason why hollow body guitars with pickups should sound different than solid bodies, a 335 isn't even hollow.

I mean, if strings stretched across two tables can sound like a telecaster, why wouldn't a 335 sound like a Les Paul?
See

If anyone believes that this is incorrect, can you please either record clips of you playing exactly the same with the same electronics, same settings, same pickups, on the two separate guitars and show how it sounds different? Or explain to me in a logical sense how having hollow wings tagged onto the side of a guitar could possibly impact the amplified sound. I mean it, I'm not trying to be a "prove me wrong" provocateur here. I genuinely want to know if there's something I'm missing for how hollow wings could affect the sound, and if I hear convincing audio or logical evidence, I will change my mind.

I am a guitar maker (Turbocaster Electric Guitars on Facebook). I build T style and vaguely Jazzmaster style guitars.
I built the blue Thinline style (pictured) a year or so ago. It's semi hollow, not unlike a 335.
A month ago, I completed the blonde one (2nd picture). Both guitars have EXACTLY the same pre-production EMG JMaster pickups and electronics.
Both have all-flame maple necks, wide jumbo frets, Hipshot locking tuners, GraphTech nuts, etc. The difference is: the blonde guitar is fully hollow, while the blue one is semi hollow. The blue one is all Alder, while the blonde one is Spanish Cedar with a 1/4" free floating Ash top.
The hollow (blonde) guitar sounds VASTLY different than the semi-hollow one!!! The Blue one sounds and plays pretty much like a Jazzmaster, but more versatile and articulate, which is because of the amazing new JMaster pickups.
HOWEVER, the blonde one is amazingly acoustic sounding, but with a really snappy feel, has an amazing attack, and a TOTALLY different feel! And yes, there is a Rosewood archtop style bridge on it, but I did have a Jazzmaster/Mustang bridge on it at first, and it was still very much like it is now.
SO, as I said, the pickups and electronics are IDENTICAL, but the tone and feel is unbelievably different!!

 

[Swirling Snow]

Tensile strength is resistance to breakage, not resistance to stretching. Steel strings absolutely do stretch under tension, and are easily broken by too much tension. Steel is elastic.

" I do not think it means what you think it means. "

When you bend a string on an electric guitar and then release it, it goes back to tune. If the string stretched, it would be out of tune.

 

[cyclopean]

High volume 335:

That’s certainly not how mine behaves. Maybe it’s stuffed full of something.

 

[cyclopean]

Doubtful. If you don't already understand why wood matters, no amount of anyone telling you it matters is going to matter to you.

It doesn’t matter nearly as much as pickups and the amp.

 

[cyclopean]

There are a lot of people in this world who need to invent reasons why the fact that they can't afford expensive guitars means expensive guitars aren't better than cheap guitars.

Depends on the guitar.

 

[Blackmore Fan]

A GOOD guitar would be that way. A crappy guitar with no regard for taming unwanted resonance frequencies may not be as sweet. I think this is why some slab-bodied guitars just a few serial numbers apart can sound quite different. Every slab of wood has its own resonant frequencies that either add, subtract, or muddy the overtones produced. Some sing sweetly, some snarl, some just suck.

Sorry, but that sounds like voodoo.

 

[Blackmore Fan]

It doesn’t matter nearly as much as pickups and the amp.

Exactly.

 

[cyclopean]

We were wondering where you went to high school. (Please forgive me for this cheap shot but I'm enough of a moron that It was just too much fun.)

With your knowledge and experience, I would think you could present data or audio that demonstrates "There. Is. A. Very. Big. Difference". On the other hand, oscilloscope readings may not correlate well to what is discernible to the human ear. You could probably give a week long lecture on that.

You have spent 35 years studying sound so your ability to notice sound differences might be exponentially better than most of us. It is also possible that your eyes tell you what you can expect to hear and that influences your hearing. I think the placebo affect highly influences what people think they hear. However, I may be projecting because I am very visual.

Apparently some people hear a big difference and some none and there are some tweeners too and we all live together on this forum. How fun!

Those who like the Guitar Tone test video in the OP, might like this Amp Tone video by the same guy. I like the Amp Tone video even more.

You can train yourself around being affected by how something looks. I know that from brewing.

 

[cyclopean]

Sorry, but that sounds like voodoo.

So the loa rides the guitar and makes the sound?

 

[FraKo]

You can look up comparison videos. They don’t sound horribly different. I have an archtop, a semi doesn't sound remotely like an archtop. It more or less sounds like a solid body guitar.

That being said I just like 335s. I'm not scoffing at Les Paul players - 335s are just more ergonomic to me, and I like that they do feed back a little more in a pleasant way. To me it is basically a solid body guitar that feels a bit like playing an archtop...which was pretty much Gibson's intention in creating it.

A Les Paul right off the bat is disqualified for me because I just find them extremely uncomfortable. I have no use or need for them.

Agreed. I always thought that a 335-ish guitar should sound more or less like a LP-shaped sister equipped with the same pup's. I prefer the bigger body of my Xaviere XV900, and for the above reasons there's no LP's (or similar, BUT a LP Jr. copy, that's a completely different animal) in my roster: too uncomfortable, I use to play sittin' on a chair. An LP is too heavy if you stand up, and too small when you sit down IMHO. I like the idea of having one (a P90 goldtop, maybe...), but I'll stay with my Xaviere. Until tomorrow.

 

[ficelles]

Here's something from the above that I didn't know: "The damping on the walnut body was statistically significantly greater than that of a guitar with the body of ash wood."

The key factor is simply the density of the material.

 

[teletail]

The main points I get from his videos are that when comparing similar guitars, amps, cabinets, etc.,
1) there are a few key components that affect the tone more than the rest and
2) you have to compare a given component in isolation to identify the differences.

If you give a player a custom guitar, amp and pedal rig, and then have the same player use an off the shelf rig of components designed to sound the same, they will sound remarkably similar. Such that all together, in a mix or live setting, most people would not be able to tell which was which, or perhaps won't be able to tell a difference.

Fair point. But What these videos miss is that guitars, even the same model, can sound different and the same guitar in different hands sounds different.

Can I MAKE two different guitars sound very similar? Of course. But sound is only one component. How a guitar plays and feels is just as important as the sound. Can I MAKE my Les Paul sound like my ES-175? Yes for certain tones, but so what? I don’t take my Les Paul on a jazz gig and I don’t take my ES-335 on a Led Zeppelin tribute band gig.

My take on these videos is, so what?

 

[Another Guitman]

From both a logical perspective and from my listening and playing experience, I don't believe these guitars have just about any tonal differences when plugged in, assuming the same pickups are used. A 335 after all has a big solid block of wood running down the middle. So even if there's a reason why hollow body guitars with pickups should sound different than solid bodies, a 335 isn't even hollow.

I mean, if strings stretched across two tables can sound like a telecaster, why wouldn't a 335 sound like a Les Paul?
See

If anyone believes that this is incorrect, can you please either record clips of you playing exactly the same with the same electronics, same settings, same pickups, on the two separate guitars and show how it sounds different? Or explain to me in a logical sense how having hollow wings tagged onto the side of a guitar could possibly impact the amplified sound. I mean it, I'm not trying to be a "prove me wrong" provocateur here. I genuinely want to know if there's something I'm missing for how hollow wings could affect the sound, and if I hear convincing audio or logical evidence, I will change my mind.

Laughing. Posts like this keep my fingers on the fretboard vs. phone.

 

[Wallaby]

This is my favorite so far

An ES-335 is like a very small boat.

 

[THX1123]

Imagine if actual science and reasoning worked like that. One needs to prove their hypothesis is right, not challenge others to prove it wrong. I see people challenge others to prove that something doesn't exist all the time. That reasoning itself should be a red flag.

"Based on anecdotal evidence and my opinion I believe that X doesn't exist/have an effect/is incorrect. Prove me wrong."

It usually ends with an assertion that everything is subjective, which is arguably just another example of misguided solipsism and recursively corrupt reasoning.

We can measure such things, so measure them and prove your position is valid.

 

[Tele-Meister]

" I do not think it means what you think it means. "

When you bend a string on an electric guitar and then release it, it goes back to tune. If the string stretched, it would be out of tune.

oh yeah that makes sense, it goes through elastic strain, but not plastic deformation. This should be due to a high yield strength. Metal is resilient. Thanks for your explanations!

 

[Tele-Meister]

It doesn’t matter nearly as much as pickups and the amp.

Exactly.

I agree, since there's so much electrical manipulation when it comes to electrical guitars (pickups, amps, pedals, effects: they all filter frequencies), practically, it's probably the smartest move to focus on the electrical side of things when it comes to tone.

However, when we are talking about the theory of how things work, it is simply not right to say that construction doesn't matter. "It doesn't matter as much as pickups and so on". Who cares? that's not what the focus here is, the focus is understanding how an electric guitar works, and what parameters affect the sounds produced, regardless of how much they contribute to the overall sound.

 

[schmee]

That’s certainly not how mine behaves. Maybe it’s stuffed full of something.

My full hollow ES225 was almost ungiggable due to feeding back. But the 335 types I've had have not been an issue. I wonder if your pickups are microphonic?

 

[robinrockus]

From both a logical perspective and from my listening and playing experience, I don't believe these guitars have just about any tonal differences when plugged in, assuming the same pickups are used. A 335 after all has a big solid block of wood running down the middle. So even if there's a reason why hollow body guitars with pickups should sound different than solid bodies, a 335 isn't even hollow.

I mean, if strings stretched across two tables can sound like a telecaster, why wouldn't a 335 sound like a Les Paul?
See

If anyone believes that this is incorrect, can you please either record clips of you playing exactly the same with the same electronics, same settings, same pickups, on the two separate guitars and show how it sounds different? Or explain to me in a logical sense how having hollow wings tagged onto the side of a guitar could possibly impact the amplified sound. I mean it, I'm not trying to be a "prove me wrong" provocateur here. I genuinely want to know if there's something I'm missing for how hollow wings could affect the sound, and if I hear convincing audio or logical evidence, I will change my mind.

You should listen to Rush, Caress of Steel album. I believe Alex Lifeson plays an old ES335 on this album. There’s a huge difference. I have some old ES335 pickups (tar backs) in a PRS Semi Hollowbody. It sounds amazing. Pickups are different in these guitars. There is resonant differences between a solid body and a semi hollowbody guitars