Why warm 5-30W engine oil before draining to change the oil?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by DugT, Jun 3, 2021.

  1. Urshurak776

    Urshurak776 Tele-Afflicted

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    Funny seeing this thread on here. I have been a member of BITOG for a decade or so.

    Modern engine oils, any brand (yes, even Walmart Supertech - which is WARREN oil) is fine. Change your oil IAW manufacturers guidance using whatever weight of oil is on the cap. If you do that, no matter what brand of oil you use, or if you drain it hot or cold, your car will last a long time. When the day comes to get rid of the car, lubrication of the engine won't be the reason.

    That being said, there is now no reason to even have a forum like BITOG. I guess we can just shut it down........:)
     
  2. SnidelyWhiplash

    SnidelyWhiplash Friend of Leo's

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    5w30 is the recommended viscosity for my Altima. I had a WM auto " expert " argue with me about using a different grade when I was in a hurry & gonna let them change my oil. I told him I can read my owner's manual & said no thanks. I change my own oil. It's far cheaper & I know that it's has been done correctly. Easy peasy... ;)
     
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  3. Urshurak776

    Urshurak776 Tele-Afflicted

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    Color means nothing. Some DI engines change it black pretty quickly. Only way to know for sure is to send it off for an oil analysis. This way, you can safely do an OCI IAW what works for your car with the best empirical evidence in your hand.
     
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  4. drf64

    drf64 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Fresh oil in some older diesels with turn instantly black.
     
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  5. drmordo

    drmordo Tele-Afflicted

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    It is the manufacturer recommended oil for my Armada as well. The question is why the manufacturer is recommended you run such light oil in your vehicle.
     
  6. Urshurak776

    Urshurak776 Tele-Afflicted

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    Exactly right. Tell you nothing about how much additive is still in the oil by just looking at it. Of course, filtration matters (probably more than anything else, including air filter) but oil filters are a whole other topic. Then flow........so, seen a number of people mention it in this thread, but nobody has said anything about the type of oil pumps in cars. Positive Displacement...........now that's a BITOG discussion. I can hear those guys getting riled up already......
     
  7. MarkieMark

    MarkieMark Friend of Leo's

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    Geez. I knew even as I wrote "gas engine" I would hear about diesel...

    Anyway, yeah, empirical data might make some happy. I just prefer to change my oil frequently.

    And yes "Walmart Supertech" is not the kind of economy "lowest price possible" product I am alluding to avoiding, obviously. (One would think, but its the internet, where everyone has to correct all the niggling details...)

    I'd be glad to explain some of the primary reasons that 5w30 is recommended (and fine) beyond just saying its partly the improvement in oil technology, and partly the improvement/changes in engine technology, but you know what...
    Ive grown a little weary of getting picked apart every time I generalize ever so slightly in the effort to be both helpful and moderately brief.
    I give up.
     
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  8. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    Because many makers use oil pressure to change cam timing, or even tension cam chains,and thicker oil may interfere with lifters or auto lash adjusters like in GM LS V8s.

    Engines are designed with low friction in mind with hypereutectic pistons, thin rings and adding thicker viscosity oils messes with that. You want oil to run very fast to these components from fireup.

    Modern engines have well integrated heat exchange via oiling systems/coolers coupled with aluminium blocks and coolant which means oil actually runs way cooler than the past with when cast iron blocks and heads.

    Going to slightly higher viscosity on worn engines makes sense. But on well maintained lower mileage motors it makes little difference except maybe emissions and poorer economy through drag.

    Engines are now engineered with certain oil/coolants in mind.

    My LS1 is 18 years and 100,000 miles old. It's been run on 5/30 since 600 mile oil change including 45-47 deg C heat. That's approaching 120 F. The Temp gauge sits stubbornly on just over 1/3 except when it split it's radiator. The engine is quiet and fires instantly hot or cold.

    It uses negligible oil between changes. The pipes are grey and pcv breather pipe are all spotless.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2021
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  9. drumtime

    drumtime Tele-Afflicted

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    Don't quit Mark - or at least just PM your posts to me - I always learn a lot and appreciate your sharing of your expertise. Some people don't understand that there are people who actually know stuff and that you should listen to them.
     
  10. Blrfl

    Blrfl Tele-Afflicted

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    The oversimplified answer is that oil has to be thick enough to stay on the surfaces it's lubricating, not so thick that it can't be pumped and not so thin that it blows by the piston rings. The thinnest oil that can do all three within the normal range of operating temperatures is going to get the nod. Anything thicker than necessary consumes energy that could be better sent to the wheels.

    It's not 1971 anymore. Half a century later, the industry knows a lot more about the metals that go into the engines it builds, the parts can be manufactured to much-tighter tolerances and newer fuel and cooling systems allow control over operating temperatures that would have been the stuff of engineers' dreams back then.

    As my brother (automotive engineer) often observes, some poor engineer slaved all day over a hot drawing board to make that recommendation and, for that alone, it's worth following.
     
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  11. tele_savales

    tele_savales Tele-Afflicted Platinum Supporter

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    No idea. I did manage to get 227,000 miles in 11 years out of my 1988 Civic and I think i changed the oil 5 or 6 times. And when it did finally partially die, it was the transmission, which I had a "patch job" done on, and then I donated it to The Institute Of Mental Physics in Joshua Tree, CA.
     
  12. Jon C

    Jon C Tele-Meister

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    Tight tolerances in modern engines....
     
  13. Urshurak776

    Urshurak776 Tele-Afflicted

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    that and CAFE requirements. Squeezing out that .0000000001% gas mileage improvement.
     
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  14. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    "The question" is why you feel the need to second guess their recommendation?
     
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  15. Urshurak776

    Urshurak776 Tele-Afflicted

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    not sure if you’re referring to my post or not. I was referring to Direct Injection gasoline engines. Not Diesel. I was just speaking to the other guys post.

    welcome to the Internet forum community, where everything is picked apart.

    You do you Mark.
     
  16. ThermionicScott

    ThermionicScott Poster Extraordinaire

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    Someone much wiser than me once commented that the biggest flamewars were about the most inconsequential things. I think that explains oil discussions to a "T". ;)
     
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  17. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Tele-Afflicted

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    I think people are so passionate about it because it's one of the few things they can control. And since only the true freaks do analysis on thier used oil, the others have to be passionate because all they have are anecdotes and attitude to back up what they say.

    I change the oil in my bikes during the off season, in the comfort of my climate controlled shop. Starting a bike in the shop is not allowed because it's in my basement. Draining room temperature oil doesn't concern me in the least and has never been an issue in 30+ years of riding, including bikes that are known to have issues wiping the hard chrome off the rockers.

    Yep. Anecdotal. But it works for me so there ya go. Warm that stuff up to your heart's content, doesn't bother me in the least.
     
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  18. D'tar

    D'tar Friend of Leo's

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    So what's the "W" stand for?;)

    5W30
     
  19. D'tar

    D'tar Friend of Leo's

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    No googling!
     
  20. Rick330man

    Rick330man Tele-Afflicted

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    Here in South Florida, many engine mechanics recommend upping your oil viscosity a grade because of our extreme climate.

    My 4 stroke 300 HP Yamaha outboard recommends 10W-30 mineral oil, but most marine mechanics down here recommend that you go with 20W-40 or 20W-50. The F150 that I use to tow the boat has a 5.0 litre (302 cubic inch) V8. The manual says 5W-20. I'm currently using 5W-30 because the boat and trailer combination it tows weighs around 7000 pounds. Our reliable as hell Honda Civic with the naturally aspirated 2.0 litre straight 4 calls for and gets 0W-20.

    My bottom line is that I generally stick to the manufacturer's recommendation, but will adjust based on the specific situation. Timely changing the oil and filter are essential no matter the application.
     
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