Why vintage stagger?

[jackal]

Since unwound "g" strings have been the norm for several decades, why are so many tele and strat pickups built with the vintage stagger? Not enough out there with flat poles much less modern stagger. But even modern stagger still seem way too loud on the g string. I am running a 15 g with a 34 d string just to get flat poles to have a decent volume balance.

 

[Derek Kiernan]

That is insane. In all likelihood, something else is happening. What strings are you using?

 

[jackal]

Have tried several brands of strings, maybe it's the way I hit the strings, happens with several brands and styles of pickups.

 

[Milspec]

Or maybe it is your ears? I play with a dude who used to be a pilot and his hearing is such that he barely hears the g on his guitar. It sounded normal to me, but he complained that it was too quiet as well.

Do you have the same problem with other guitars?

 

[Derek Kiernan]

How are you adjusting the tone stack? What else are you using?

 

[Tony Done]

I'm with you on this, not matter what strings I try, within reason, a plain 3rd sounds too hot with vintage stagger, and I can't understand how it has remained popular for so long. I was a long-time acoustic guitarist before I took up electric, and that could be why I'm very sensitive to string-to-string balance. I also play electric bright and clean, like an acoustic, which might also have something to do with it. Maybe most electric players just get used to it, or learn how to compensate in the picking style, or it doesn't show when using compressed overdriven sounds.

FWIW, I like alnico slug, plastic bobbin pickups in strat SCs so that I can adjust pole stagger to where I like it.

 

[BartS]

I make mine flat. There is to much attack in the mids and highs. I adjust my pickups with the treble side way down and the bass strings up a bit. I mean if your playing some cruddy pickup it may not matter if they are scatterwound you can hear everything. Flat is just about right.

 

[Derek Kiernan]

Flat is just about right with a little bump on the D in most cases, not even close to vintage stagger, especially on the bridge pickup (which should be closer to the strings). Flat should not be that off though.

 

[alnicopu]

I'm with you on this, not matter what strings I try, within reason, a plain 3rd sounds too hot with vintage stagger, and I can't understand how it has remained popular for so long. I was a long-time acoustic guitarist before I took up electric, and that could be why I'm very sensitive to string-to-string balance. I also play electric bright and clean, like an acoustic, which might also have something to do with it. Maybe most electric players just get used to it, or learn how to compensate in the picking style, or it doesn't show when using compressed overdriven sounds.

FWIW, I like alnico slug, plastic bobbin pickups in strat SCs so that I can adjust pole stagger to where I like it.

Totally with you here. Every stagger pickup I have had in a single coil has that "in your face" g string thing. It's there with b and e also but the transition from wound d to g is so abrupt. Tried adjusting the pickups all kinds of ways. G is also the first string i notice to not quite tune when it's time for a string change. Part of that is me. My wife can't hear, what I hear, as being out of tune. I got so frustrated that I laid it down on the table, took my thumb and pushed all 3 g string pole pieces flat with the cover! Much much better now with my current Strat.

 

[Tony Done]

Totally with you here. Every stagger pickup I have had in a single coil has that "in your face" g string thing. It's there with b and e also but the transition from wound d to g is so abrupt. Tried adjusting the pickups all kinds of ways. G is also the first string i notice to not quite tune when it's time for a string change. Part of that is me. My wife can't hear, what I hear, as being out of tune. I got so frustrated that I laid it down on the table, took my thumb and pushed all 3 g string pole pieces flat with the cover! Much much better now with my current Strat.

I use a short length of bamboo skewer and small hammer if the pickup is in situ. I use a piece of brass rod in the drill press if the pickup isn't installed. As you say, the main problem is the 3rd and 4th strings, and Derek's solution in post #8 may be sufficient in many cases. I wouldn't risk it on fibre endplate pickups though, I broke the wire on one once doing that.

EDIT This is a pic of one of mine, installed and balanced:

I probably had a bit of overkill there, but it works just fine.

 

[Dacious]

You know you can actually push your magnets in or out..... Lot of hassle, I know. But possible.

If you're not using a 7.25" i.e. vintage radius you shouldn't be using vintage stagger. It'll be wrong for modern flat necks,. 10" or flatter and prob compound curve necks, too. Got vintage stagger on my 69RI and 62RI Strat - no issues with balance with 11-49 Diaddarios

 

[alnicopu]

I use a short length of bamboo skewer and small hammer if the pickup is in situ. I use a piece of brass rod in the drill press if the pickup isn't installed. As you say, the main problem is the 3rd and 4th strings, and Derek's solution in post #8 may be sufficient in many cases. I wouldn't risk it on fibre endplate pickups though, I broke the wire on one once doing that.

Yes. I took a chance doing it. I have a 300.00 beater highway 1 I have bonded with and everything I could find said the alnico 3's used aren't directly against the windings, but shoved in plastic tubes in the bobbins. It's the internet so, of course, there was lots of conflicting info out there. At that point I was willing to risk it.

 

[alnicopu]

I use a short length of bamboo skewer and small hammer if the pickup is in situ. I use a piece of brass rod in the drill press if the pickup isn't installed. As you say, the main problem is the 3rd and 4th strings, and Derek's solution in post #8 may be sufficient in many cases. I wouldn't risk it on fibre endplate pickups though, I broke the wire on one once doing that.

EDIT This is a pic of one of mine, installed and balanced:

I probably had a bit of overkill there, but it works just fine.

No overkill if it works.

 

[Tony Done]

Yes. I took a chance doing it. I have a 300.00 beater highway 1 I have bonded with and everything I could find said the alnico 3's used aren't directly against the windings, but shoved in plastic tubes in the bobbins. It's the internet so, of course, there was lots of conflicting info out there. At that point I was willing to risk it.

Yeah, I've read similar things, eg that some have plastic tubes, but I now err on the side of caution.

 

[Ricky D.]

I'm with you on this, not matter what strings I try, within reason, a plain 3rd sounds too hot with vintage stagger, and I can't understand how it has remained popular for so long. I was a long-time acoustic guitarist before I took up electric, and that could be why I'm very sensitive to string-to-string balance. I also play electric bright and clean, like an acoustic, which might also have something to do with it. Maybe most electric players just get used to it, or learn how to compensate in the picking style, or it doesn't show when using compressed overdriven sounds.

FWIW, I like alnico slug, plastic bobbin pickups in strat SCs so that I can adjust pole stagger to where I like it.

Compression will squash the volume difference along with everything else.

 

[Derek Kiernan]

Pickups should only "match" the neck radius if there is no change in string spacing from the nut at the bridge, which never happens on a Fender. If you go from a 1.65" nut width (1.375 spacing) to a vintage bridge (2.125"), that's 1.55x -- meaning your 7.25" radius should be 11.2" at the bridge. A modern radius and spacing puts it even higher.