Why Pre-1974?

Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by Mars Hall, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. Mars Hall

    Mars Hall TDPRI Member

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    I'm just curious as to why this is the cut off for what is considered a vintage Tele? Is there a significant change in the production of post 73 Tele's?
     
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  2. CWP0126

    CWP0126 Tele-Meister

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  3. CK Dexter Haven

    CK Dexter Haven Friend of Leo's

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    Unknown-6.jpeg "73 that is..
     
  4. Smiff

    Smiff Tele-Holic

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    I heard that whatever year the forum was set up, guitars that were made in 1974 and earlier were deemed old enough to be “vintage”. Although guitars of that same age now aren’t lol; a 30 year old guitar today isn’t vintage but a 30 year old guitar 15 years ago was?!

    Edit: I was a Strat man for many years and they seem more clear cut:

    Pre-CBS is definitely vintage.
    Early CBS (takeover - 1970) might be vintage depending who you ask. This is judged on merit considering the introduction of Poly instead of Nitro, bigger headstock, plastic insulation instead of cloth insulation etc. through that period.
    Later CBS (1971 onwards) with the bullet truss rod and 3 bolt neck isn’t vintage.

    So a 3 bolt neck/bullet truss rod Strat isn’t vintage but a 3 bolt neck/bullet truss rod Thinline or Custom Tele could be vintage:lol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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  5. Antoon

    Antoon Tele-Holic

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    I saw a pic of an early 80s Tele and it did inspire some vintage vibe with me. Perhaps it is time to draw the line to when actually CBS sold Fender again (the guitars got better though :) )
     
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  6. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

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    The limit for the vintage forum a difficult choice. The radical point of view is to stick strictly to the selling to CBS, like the Stratocaster forum (pre66 section). I think that's too bad because the pre CBS qualities are still there in the instruments of the 5 next years, even if they progressively change, and even Leo Fender remained consultant, still inventing the three bold tilt for instance. Not being able to speak of the strats of the Hendrix years in this forum makes no sense, even if, of course, their character is already different, they're real great vintage pieces. For Telecaster, getting till 74 has the great advantage to include the new models from CBS era : Custom, Deluxe and new Thinline, and they are very interesting instruments. The limit is less a purist choice, but allows many interesting conversations about more great vintage instruments, I think.
     
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  7. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

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  8. bo

    bo Poster Extraordinaire

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    It's the result of a large discussion that happened here years ago. I think it was simply the 30 year mark or something akin to that.
     
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  9. tap4154

    tap4154 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Seems to me that at this point in Fender history the no-notch mid-70s to early 80s Tele should be considered unique and vintage, since it hasn't been made in 35 years ;)

    Maybe we need a vintage no-notch Tele forum?

    Because we don't need no stinking notches!

    1975 Tele No Notch (720x1280).jpg
     
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  10. Bob M

    Bob M Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    Mark Agnesi of Norman's Rare Guitars promotes late '70s Fenders as vintage. Charge vintage prices for them as well.
     
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  11. noah330

    noah330 Friend of Leo's

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    74 was always my cutoff year when I was younger. I found it interesting that the forum looks at things like that but in my experience 74 was when pole pieces got flat and bodies were generally heavier.

    I have a 73 Telecaster Custom I bought when I was 16 for $400 and a 73 Strat I bought when I was maybe 20 for $600. Both have staggered poles and light bodies. A buddy I went to college with had the exact same Tele but his had the flat poles and the heavy body (IIRC it was a 74 or 75) and it was dead and lifeless. Mine is featherweight and resonant. Same with my Strat.

    I worked in a pretty good used/vintage store (we were actually the first people to sell the Klon in 94) when I bought the Strat and that was pretty much the accepted cutoff.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Plumber

    Plumber Tele-Holic

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    I've had 2 78 teles - one was shockingly bad the other amazing a few serial numbers apart

    an 83 that was amazing build quality and a pretty great instrument

    I pay no attention to dates only the guitar in question
     
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  13. twang junkie

    twang junkie Tele-Meister

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    In the 1950s the cutoff point for a piece of Furniture being antique was 1830, by the 1970s later 19th century pieces were given the title and by the 1990s even 1930s pieces were being called antiques. Pieces as late as the 1970s are now showing up in high end antique shops and fairs.
    I guess it's similar with guitars, the reality is dealers need stock, pre CBS guitars and amps are thin on the ground now, people hang on to them, the dealers learn to create new markets to supply the markets desire for something special, I have watched youtube videos of stores showing off 1979 International series strats with great excitement.
    I was 14 in 1979 and bought my first American electric, a Moroccan red hard tail, brand new strat. I gigged it constantly and it was garbage, it wouldn't hold tuning, the pickups were lifeless and it weighed too much.

    3 years later I bought a 1962 Gretsch double anniversary and the strat was relegated to the sidelines. It would be over 20 years before I bought a brand new guitar again (custom shop tele, now also gone) and I never owned another Strat.

    My rambling point is you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere and 1974 is the end of the old Tele shape so it's the start of a major change dictated by cost efficiency.
    By this point the process of making any Fender was highly mechanised and corners were being cut to make the whole procedure more profitable.

    To me the words vintage and antique stand for more than a passing of time, they relate to a sensibility that things were built to last and that the balance between profit and quality were considered important
     
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  14. InkStained

    InkStained Tele-Meister

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    You have to draw the line somewhere, don't you?

    I have a 1993 American Standard that's older than Roy Buchanan's "Nancy" was when he recorded his debut album in 1971/72.

    But that sure as heck doesn't make my '93 "vintage."
     
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  15. rob2

    rob2 Tele-Holic

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    exactly....when Clapton and others made bursts stupidly legendary they were just relatively recent second hand guitars....
    I tend to think of Fender as three epochs..Pre-CBS,CBS and Post-CBS....my interest is CBS....the Wide Range Thinline and all the other takes on the Tele....and then the mad stuff like Swingers and Starcasters....all my Fenders(11) are CBS...from '69 to '76....looking at a '78 Tele next....
    Maybe thats the best way to divide it up....
     
  16. 83siennateleguy

    83siennateleguy Tele-Meister

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    My 83 tele and ONLY the 83 telecasters have the non ashtray top loader bridge. The late 58/59 tele had a top loader ashtray style bridge .
    So having a 1983 standard telecaster siennaburst (rare for telecasters) All Original FULLERTON guitar that nobody wants to talk about unless it's talking down on them is not vintage,UNLESS Reverb or any other vintage guitar dealer has one for sale. Then it's Vintage, plus it's the Jeff Buckley year telecaster and it's from the Dan Smith era of Fender which this description seems to only apply to strats for some reason. Funny how there's nothing special about my guitar because I own it , but it's a VINTAGE piece of history if a dealer owns it.
    I wish someone somewhere would get this all figured out about the Vintage B.S.
    Why don't you make the cut off when Fender moved out of Fullerton. Heck they didn't even make a MIA telecaster in the mid 80s. Then it became American standard telecaster. It was always the standard telecaster until they left Fullerton. So I vote vintage as 1985 or anything Fullerton.
    On second thought; what the heck do I know, someone will argue all this anyway so forget I said anything at all.
     
  17. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    "Vintage" simply means "of a certain year." It's not a word that is designed to stand alone with any sort of specific meaning. It should have a specific year or period attached to it to work as intended. For example, "A '60's vintage Tele" is correct; "A vintage Tele" is not. You can also have a "2018 vintage" guitar; again, all the word does is to describe that an item is from a particular year or period, which should also be stated. "Vintage" alone doesn't tell you jack. Unfortunately, people so frequently misused it to mean "old" or "antique" that the word has now been permanently perverted, thus tells us nothing when used these days.
     
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  18. viking

    viking Friend of Leo's

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    I think a lot of people look at this as what is " worthy " of being called Vintage.
    I love old stuff , and would love old guitars , even if they didnt cost money at all
    Vintage doesnt mean better , outstanding , desireable or anything else.
     
  19. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

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    isn't vintage "more than 25 years old"?
     
  20. JL_LI

    JL_LI Friend of Leo's

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    A guitar loses 30% of its purchase value the minute it leaves the shop. Its value stays flat if it's kept in near new condition and continues to fall if it's not well taken care of. Inflation keeps resale prices from declining much more. For some desirable instruments associated with a few famous players, something different happens. As the players die off, the models of guitars they played increase in value. A guitar becomes vintage when its resale price exceeds its original purchase price. A John Lennon era Casino can be worth a lot. Some old guitars will never be worth much, even in excellent condition and will certainly not be sought after as vintage. Does anyone want to buy a 1974 Ovation Balladeer in excellent condition with the OHSC? IMO, there are guitars to play and guitars to hang in a showcase. And the only use I have for a showcase is as a place to hang a banged up guitar to keep it from getting banged up worse.
     
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