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Why must controls be so complex?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by rdwhitti, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. con brio

    con brio Tele-Meister

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    If I recall the champion 600 schematic correctly it's roughly a blackface style champ circuit with the tone controls hardwired as if the bass and treble were all the way up, and the mids was about noon. The other thing you'll have to compensate for is that it's got just boatloads of negative feedback; it takes a long way round the dial to get it to break up, and then when it does the filth has a very sturdy quality to it: it's no greasy tweed rocker.

    Especially on a bigger amp with more filth potential, having some more complex EQ controls becomes more valuable for ensuring it doesn't become a sludgy or brittle mess. IMO you can get away with a lot less on a smaller and/or cleaner amp.
     
  2. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    You're right !
     
  3. rdwhitti

    rdwhitti Tele-Holic

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    Yes I think that is a pretty fair description of the BD vs. Champ 600, and yes the BD does a fair job of duplicating the tone with the settings similar to what you said (of course in a much bigger and richer way) but I miss the picking responsiveness of the smaller amp (I guess that is due to the huge negative feedback that you mentioned, and like you said it does not break up until about 8-9/12). Of course I realize they are completely different animals, and I love both for what they are. And of course the BD is capable of far more tonal variations, it is just going to take time to learn how to effectively use the settings. And I bought the BD because I much preferred it over the DRRI that was right next to it; to me the DRRI was always far too bright no matter the settings (many others on here and elsewhere have said the same thing). Of course the DRRI (and TRRI/SRRI) are built much better but it is tone that matters most (I play exclusively at home).
     
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  4. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Are you saying that negative feedback suppresses picking responsiveness? I'd be interested in knowing more about this.
     
  5. rdwhitti

    rdwhitti Tele-Holic

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    I can never remember which way but I have heard that they are related, and Fender refers to it in the description of the Vintage Custom series amps.
     
  6. xafinity

    xafinity Friend of Leo's

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    Must be speaking Scootish, I couldnt understand a damn word.
    He seems sincere though so I give it a 7
     
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  7. fatcat

    fatcat Friend of Leo's

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    My ideal amp would be single channel, and would have a gain/volume knob; a tone stack with at least two knobs; and a master volume. Reverb would be optional.
     
  8. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I guess 'complexity' all depends on what you're used to. I know that plenty of people swear by a very simple amp in order to "easily dial in their tone," yet just as many prefer something more involved in order to get as close as possible to what they want to hear.

    I've got a Mesa Mark V, and if you're of the "simple is best" side of things it probably looks like the dashboard of the space shuttle. But if you know your way around the amp and are familiar with what all of the controls do it's not all that complicated. Horses for courses.
     
  9. srinivassa

    srinivassa Tele-Meister

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    I've had a couple of amps where I just dime the tone stack and leave it. It's not nearly the same thing as having no stack, but it is closest to that sound. To further complicate things, I put an EQ pedal in the loop for actual EQ. The tone stack is just to find the best tone. I really think once you find that, you should just leave it alone. I use the EQ pedal if I actually need to adjust the EQ. (This further complicates the situation by adding a pedal, but it simplifies the tone stack operation.)
     
  10. rdwhitti

    rdwhitti Tele-Holic

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    Well it is sort of a moot point now. I had to return the BD for an intermittent but recurring and annoying static sound, even with nothing plugged in, plus a weak (weaker than normal for this type amp) reverb. I ended up with a DRRI and hope that it is the last one; I am getting very tired of having to take amps back.
     
  11. Ira7

    Ira7 Doctor of Teleocity

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    I have a Champion 110, the predecessor to the Frontman 25R. I didn't use it since the day I bought it (was more into acoustic), but once I got back into electric last year, I scoured this website like a maniac.

    I replaced the speaker, and put a new reverb tank in, but the biggest improvement to this cheap little 25w amp was just reading...

    "Bass 1, Mid 10, Treble 3.

    "And never change that ever."

    Now, I admit that I don't now recall whether that's the index numbers or 1 o'clock, 10 o'clock, etc., but damn, was this guy right. He was basically DEMANDING that if you own this amp, these settings are the sweet spot...by a mile.

    No doubt, other amps can behave similarly.
     
  12. beexter

    beexter Tele-Meister

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    That's why I love my Orange Rocker 30. It's a two channel amp - the "Natural" (clean) channel has a volume knob and that's it. It's incapable of pre-amp overdrive - wind it up and it's just power amp drive. Different tones come from different guitars, pickup selection and guitar tone controls. The simplicity is a breath of fresh air and it highlights differences in what you feed into it like nothing else I've tried.

    The "Dirty" channel has Bass, Middle and Treble controls plus a gain and master volume. Best of both worlds in one amp.
     
  13. Tony474

    Tony474 Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    Hee hee, Scootish, eh? Would that be the Vespan or Lambrettan dialect? Actually the guy is speaking good ol' plain English, but with a reasonably educated Scottish accent. If you're not used to it I can understand how it might be less easy to follow, but I find that it's the lowish volume and rather mumbly sound quality that's the problem with that video, not the presenter's speech.
     
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