Why is J Garcia stuff so difficult to play?

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by Blue Bill, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Oh. and I'm quoting myself to add, yes I know that interview pointed out that Garcia struggled to sight read (AT THE TIME OF THE INTERVIEW), so, point taken, I stand corrected.
     
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  2. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Garcia always seemed to be a good guy. In Portland around 1972, my friend Gene was backstage at a Dead concert in the Paramount (if I have my history right), when someone started passing a guitar around the area where everyone was sitting. After Garcia and some of the others played their little ditties, they handed the guitar to Gene. Gene was professional a bass player, but, of course, played guitar very well for sitaround stuff. When he finished his bit and handed off the guitar, Garcia smiled at him, gave him a thumbs up (I might be making this part up) and said, "Yeah!" That part I remember Gene telling. Again and again. Apparently, after he began a life as a business-person, he would occasionally tell people about that. Invariable, he later told me, everyone he told it to, changed it to the time Gene jammed with Garcia and/or the Dead. Even after he corrected them, the next time it came up again, it was still a jam with Garcia in their telling.
     
  3. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    It's the saddest thing, that someone so talented and likeable had such a malignant addiction to nasty drugs. I wish something or someone, other than drugs or drug dealers, could have helped him feel more comfortable.
     
  4. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

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    Steve Kimock was in the first version of The Other Ones back in the 90s. If Steve could sing he would have been on these more recent Dead tours.

    If you want to learn the Jerry Garcia style Steve may be the most hip on the topic. Not only can you get the essential licks, but you also get the DNA of the style when Steve talks about the microbends and pitch relations.

    Steve is a master of Aloudin Mathieu's Harmonic Experience, a masterwork book that when processed through Steve's brain can explain in scientific accuracy about what Jerry was doing in the microtonal world of his playing, or anyone's microtonalisms.

    I play a lot of blues, thanks to Steve I now understand at least at a fundamental functional level, the different microbend points and how they work (like play the microbend on the IV7 chord, etc.). So I think of all this becomes like a how to book for blues. Blues is the open umbrella and Jerry's style is but one style under the blues umbrella

    Here is an excellent article when Steve was I think,,, playing with The Other Ones.
    Great Jerry discussion,
    http://ezone.org/interviews/kimock/influences.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  5. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Hi Kat, Does he have a book,or guitar lesson vids? I don't know much about microbending, I would like to learn.
     
  6. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

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    He has tons of stuff over at tgp archives or old posts, look under theory and technique, he goes by Kimock

    But in the end what you end up with is 58 tones including the fret notes.
    Notes are on the frets
    Tones are everything between the frets,
    Seriously we don't play 58 tones, but we do play around roughly 20. Most of this are the sweet spots we play in the blues, but there are tones to be found underneath the fretted note where we use our whammy, or bending the neck, or we can try to do what Kimock does which is to push the string flat, push towards the bridge. Most people do this to flatten a tone, by doing the side to side "cello" vibrato.

    The best thing to do imo is to play with this microtonal stuff, over a major blues. Like blues in A. The blues is great because the guitar's interval of the 3rd found on the fret is a bit sharp, so the exercise would be to explore the neighboring microtones, find the better 3rds. Either bend up from the minor 3rd, or push the string flat from the fretted maj 3rd.

    Does this mean you work harder? Heck yea, these techniques are not kids play, they are hard.

    I also suggest listening to the man himself, lots. Hear him playing in Jerry's style and where he departs into his thing.

    Cole's Law, notice in the beginning his use of the butterfly vibrato followed by the subtle cello vibrato, listen for the microtonal dip in pitch.

    Cole's Law,
     
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  7. johnny k

    johnny k Friend of Leo's

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  8. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Wow, that's beautiful. Great tone, it looks like he's got Charlie Christian pickups. 58 tones, the well is deep, Grasshopper. This thread has been therapeutic for me, thanks, everyone. I'm starting to look at playing in a new light. Not kid's play anymore. :eek:

    This makes me remember SRV playing the song Lenny, with the constant whammy bar pulsing; hypnotic, but still subtle.
     
  9. raysachs

    raysachs Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I loved Kimock and was really excited when he joined the Other Ones in those early post-Jerry years. I went and saw them and was really disappointed. They'd also added another guitarist (who's name I've completely forgotten) and Kimock was just waaaaaay too polite and was deferring to this guy and to the rest of the band at every turn. He basically didn't play much of anything that night. I thought if he'd really stepped up and taken some control of that guitar spot, they could have gone on and done some really impressive stuff. But based on what I've read since, that was easier thought about than done with Phil more or less running the show in those days. I thought that was a real opportunity missed, one they didn't come close to getting back until Kadlecik joined years later. I basically got off the bus after by the late 90s and didn't really get interested again until this recent iteration with Mayer, who I didn't think much of at first, but I think he's really grown into that role well. I hate crowds and traffic and late hours and very rarely go to shows anymore, but I'd like to see Dead and Co at some point with this current lineup.
     
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  10. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Those pickups are Danelectro lipsticks or recreations thereof.
     
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  11. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    After a closer look, I think you are correct.
     
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  12. historicus146

    historicus146 Tele-Holic

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    Try his banjo playing on Old and in the Way album..... his own picking style.
     
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  13. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

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    Wasn't it a heart attack, a side effect of his serious diabetes problem. He almost died in '86 from falling into a diabetic coma.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  14. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    I don't know if heroine addicts are more prone to heart attacks, but overweight diabetics prolly are.
     
  15. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    We tried playing Brown Eyed Women at an open mic on Wednesday. It was a bit of a train wreck. I was trying to sing and think about soloing at the same time; the solo came out half OK, half lame-o. People seemed to like it anyways. More practice!
     
  16. Utah Joe

    Utah Joe Tele-Meister

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    For those who primarily associate Jerry with psychedelic rock here’s an example of his approach to blues.

     
  17. ecoast

    ecoast Tele-Holic

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  18. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Thanks, Jersey! Wow, there's a lot there.
     
  19. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Unmistakably Jerry Garcia, ain’t it??
     
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  20. Disco Biscuits

    Disco Biscuits TDPRI Member

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    For Jerry, there is a huge amount coming from mixolydian scales/modes. He really covets these kind of patterns(See Below), and will kind of fly in and out of mixolydian while mixing in pentatonic, major, and adds in a few chromatic runs.

    I'm very proficient in his style of playing, moreso than any other style. I understand his style of playing moreso than my other influences, probably because I've listened to no less than 1,000 hours of his playing/Grateful Dead.

    E__________________9_10_12
    B___________7_8_10________
    G ____6_7_9 _______________
    D_7 9______________________
    A_________________________
    E_________________________

    My absolute best advice I can give you to start getting comfortable and understanding the nuances of his playing, would be to create a backing track or find one on youtube for Fire On the Mountain. The entire song is just a two chord progression going from B major to A Major. Play that example I posted above (doesn't have to be in that order), with Fire on the Mountain and it will begin to make sense for you.

    When you get comfortable with it, add an envelope filter and you're halfway to Jerry Town. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions. Touch of Grey and Sugar Magnolia are two simple songs to learn from the Dead also, and the fills/riffs are not incredibly difficult from those songs.
     
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