Why do people pay more than they should for reissues?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dacious

Doctor of Teleocity
Joined
Mar 16, 2003
Posts
10,796
Location
Godzone
I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of amp purchasers see them as appliances they plug their guitars into.

Like most appliance purchases, they shop in their prices range for something that produces an outcome they want. Some want a nameplate for an image.

You don’t see many people insisting on vintage washer and driers because they are easier to maintain (yes, I know *some* people do)

I’m just trying to point out that we view amps differently than the average purchaser (aka “the market”)

Hi!

Not sure if you saw my post above yours...
If companies didn't care about "us", they wouldn't offer products for "us".
We are "the market" (aka "the average purchaser"), as much as anybody else is.

cheers - 68.
I think you're both right and your opinions aren't inconsistent..

Without enthusiasts and forums like this reissue guitar and amps and the buzz and fuss and all the ephemera like vintage speakers and tube reincarnations are unlikely to exist. Like the classic Mustang, Camaro and Charger exist - and the Toyota Supra, new Nissan Z - because of enthusiasts.

Without the buzz of internet forums it's likely we'd be playing much more anodyne guitars and fridge like amps.

OTOH if it didn't pay, they wouldn't do it, even though they might have a hankering to.

It'd be a lot simpler to just make lots of slightly different models of guitars in pretty colours like their non-reissue lines where they use limited sets of common hardware, pickups and tuners, rather than several sets for 50s, several sets of 60s hardware, several different vintage pickup specs across Fender and Squier lines etc.
 
Last edited:

loudboy

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
May 21, 2003
Posts
1,282
Location
Sedona, Arizona
I'll take a small issue with the reliability of older amps - my '78 SFPR was recapped and tuned up when I got it, maybe 15 years ago. Untouched since then, hundreds of gigs on it. No problems, other than the wire on the reverb pan broke, so I had to replace it.

Same with my '83 Marshall JCM800, had it over 20 years and it still fires right up.

To the OP - if you want to see nuts, look at prices for OD/Fuzz pedals. $150 for $5 worth of parts, using a circuit that was developed by someone else, decades ago.
 

BoomTexan

Tele-Meister
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Posts
355
Age
19
Location
Houston
I'll take a small issue with the reliability of older amps - my '78 SFPR was recapped and tuned up when I got it, maybe 15 years ago. Untouched since then, hundreds of gigs on it. No problems, other than the wire on the reverb pan broke, so I had to replace it.

Same with my '83 Marshall JCM800, had it over 20 years and it still fires right up.

To the OP - if you want to see nuts, look at prices for OD/Fuzz pedals. $150 for $5 worth of parts, using a circuit that was developed by someone else, decades ago.
Oh no, I totally understand. I don't understand peoples mania over pedals either. What I absolutely love is finding vintage organs on Craigslist for free and they're crammed full of handwired parts that were lovingly made by a craftsman 50-80 years ago. Millions of carbon comp resistors that someone had to draw up a schematic for and troubleshoot and design for months. All this is reduced to a pile of garbage (in many peoples eyes). There's one in the practice room at my college and I'll book practice time and waste 10 minutes just opening it up and looking inside in amazement.

Meanwhile, a vintage Dallas Rangemaster can cost $3000 for a casing, one transistor and maybe 75 cents of resistors and caps. A "boutique" Rangemaster will set you back $1-300. I feel the only good deals on pedals that exist are the Joyo amp in a box line and most Behringer stuff.

I guess that might be behind the reason for why I don't like mass produced or popular products. It just feels like a corporate cash grab rather than something that someone physically made and poured hours of their time into. Many of the (even cheaper) amps and guitars I play are like that and I love that someone other than me cared about them at some point and made them as best they could rather than rolling off an assembly line for a $100 profit per unit. I think it shows in terms of reliability, usefulness, and intrigue.
 

Dacious

Doctor of Teleocity
Joined
Mar 16, 2003
Posts
10,796
Location
Godzone
What I absolutely love is finding vintage organs on Craigslist for free and they're crammed full of handwired parts that were lovingly made by a craftsman 50-80 years ago. Millions of carbon comp resistors that someone had to draw up a schematic for and troubleshoot and design for months.

Meanwhile, a vintage Dallas Rangemaster can cost $3000 for a casing, one transistor and maybe 75 cents of resistors and caps. A "boutique" Rangemaster will set you back $1-300. I feel the only good deals on pedals that exist are the Joyo amp in a box line and most Behringer stuff.

I guess that might be behind the reason for why I don't like mass produced or popular products. It just feels like a corporate cash grab rather than something that someone physically made and poured hours of their time into. Many of the (even cheaper) amps and guitars I play are like that and I love that someone other than me cared about them at some point and made them as best they could rather than rolling off an assembly line for a $100 profit per unit. I think it shows in terms of reliability, usefulness, and intrigue.
I think you've got an overly rosy, romantic view of the past.

Fender's amp shed at Fullerton was full of minimum wage workers, often Mexican immigrants, honest workers not artisans, breathing in lead solder fumes handwiring tagboards on piecework schedule. Often they were women because they were regarded as being better at the neatness/getting it right first time thing.

Once a chassis was bolted in place and wired to the speaker/s the line foreman plugged in a guitar to test it and then it was boxed and sent to dispatch. If it worked first time, noone gave it another thought.

Some version of that scenario was replicated over other manufacturers and continents, guitars, amps, pedals. Vox over the years shopped it's manufacture between different makers many of whom weren't even musical instrument factories, made audio or radios or instruments or telecomms gear or just built job lots to contract.

Their employees were semi-skilled workers who mostly were feeding their families and didn't play instruments or really care about them .

Tadeo Gomez' family was amazed he was regarded as anything other than a father and breadwinner when contacted by 'Guitar' magazine in the noughties and told that Fenders he initialled were highly regarded. No doubt he was good at his job, but he was a semi skilled blue collar worker who probably couldn't justify buying the Fenders he made if he played guitar at all.

After leaving Fender probably due to stuffed lungs from breathing in nitro fumes and sawdust in the 50s while smoking, he returned to Fender in the 70s as a nightwatchman. While he was probably well regarded it's unlikely he had any status other than trusted employee.
 
Last edited:

Terrygh1949

Tele-Meister
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Posts
289
Age
73
Location
Kansas
Supro in particular is horrible with this, but this applies to Fender with their Champ and Princeton reissues. Their new amps are FAR MORE EXPENSIVE than the vintage ones they're based on. I get it, the 1978 Princeton Amp isn't the exact same as a 2022 Princeton Reverb '68 Reissue, but they're the same price and one is handwired in the USA, and the other isn't!

Here's a 1959 Super 1606 for $600 shipped and with tax (but you could probably talk him down) https://reverb.com/item/60664966-supro-1606-1959-not-reissue

Here's a Super 1606 Reissue new. It is based on the version that was released like 3 years after the 1959 one, but I'll get to that soon. It's $750 BEFORE tax and shipping.

Here's the 1961 Super 606. This is the amp that the 1606 Reissue was actually based on (confusing names here). It's roughly the same price as the reissue, but it is vintage and absolutely gorgeous, and I'd buy this in a heartbeat over the 1606 Reissue.
Well if you got the money and that's what you want then do it. I wouldn't and, never will.
 

vampwizzard

TDPRI Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Posts
54
Age
35
Location
Abingdon, VA
Princeton reverb listed for 235$ in 1978. Just over 1k today. Reissue plus regulation+warranty requirements of 2022 make the prices comparable.

The reissues are like new cars vs vintage. More stuff to make them easier to manufacture but repairing is harder and they are not meant to last forever anymore.

Building your dream amp isn’t quality and cost effective unless you are really good with a soldering iron or, like me, want the effected channel of a blackface deluxe in a 12 inch speaker Princeton package. My parts cost today for a Princeton or 1 channel is right around 1k.

I’d say the next 10 years will be dominated by the new harmony amps. Built on perfboard more so than a traditional pcb.. those things are what a hot rod deluxe should be.
 

Fiesta Red

Poster Extraordinaire
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Posts
9,567
Location
Texas
Well, if anyone can find me a ‘59 Bassman or a ‘63 Vibroverb for the same price as a reissue, please let me know where it is.

That’s the main reason I play through a 63RI Vibroverb, and would happily pick up a 59RI Bassman of and when I have the scratch on hand.
 

vampwizzard

TDPRI Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Posts
54
Age
35
Location
Abingdon, VA
Well, if anyone can find me a ‘59 Bassman or a ‘63 Vibroverb for the same price as a reissue, please let me know where it is.

That’s the main reason I play through a 63RI Vibroverb, and would happily pick up a 59RI Bassman of and when I have the scratch on hand.
I could do the hand built vibroverb for less than the reissue. The bassman reissues are CHEAP
 

BoomTexan

Tele-Meister
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Posts
355
Age
19
Location
Houston
Well, if anyone can find me a ‘59 Bassman or a ‘63 Vibroverb for the same price as a reissue, please let me know where it is.

That’s the main reason I play through a 63RI Vibroverb, and would happily pick up a 59RI Bassman of and when I have the scratch on hand.
I think I wrote in my original post or one following that that for bigger and more complex or legendary amps, the reissues make sense. I'm not spending $100k on a Dumble when I could spend $750 on a VHT D50. Same goes for a 5F1, 5E3, or JTM45.
 

mister2

TDPRI Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Posts
4
Age
75
Location
Tucson
Princeton reverb listed for 235$ in 1978. Just over 1k today. Reissue plus regulation+warranty requirements of 2022 make the prices comparable.

The reissues are like new cars vs vintage. More stuff to make them easier to manufacture but repairing is harder and they are not meant to last forever anymore.

Building your dream amp isn’t quality and cost effective unless you are really good with a soldering iron or, like me, want the effected channel of a blackface deluxe in a 12 inch speaker Princeton package. My parts cost today for a Princeton or 1 channel is right around 1k.

I’d say the next 10 years will be dominated by the new harmony amps. Built on perfboard more so than a traditional pcb.. those things are what a hot rod deluxe should be.

I agree. Inflation (who doesn't know the meaning of the word today?) marches on, so a $235 '78 amp would cost a little over 1K. But a '68 (some would prefer) would calculate to $1,932, quality of parts or workmanship notwithstanding.

As for manufactured product quality, unless I really had a good idea (like I was in the trade) of my components and the skills to match, buying at a store with a warranty seems like the easy button.
 

vampwizzard

TDPRI Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Posts
54
Age
35
Location
Abingdon, VA
I agree. Inflation (who doesn't know the meaning of the word today?) marches on, so a $235 '78 amp would cost a little over 1K. But a '68 (some would prefer) would calculate to $1,932, quality of parts or workmanship notwithstanding.

As for manufactured product quality, unless I really had a good idea (like I was in the trade) of my components and the skills to match, buying at a store with a warranty seems like the easy button.

That makes sense. I warranty my amps for the people I build them for. I also build them so they aren’t crowded and with milspec techniques. If you watch psionic on YouTube there are a lot of boutique amps that are hot garbage on the inside. The trick, like you said, is price and warranty.
 

Joe M

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 16, 2003
Posts
3,929
Location
Michigan
OK, after 6 pages of an obvious troll-like topic, and a few of you that can't help but bait each other, this thread is put to rest.....not worth the aggravation of policing it any further.....

CLOSED
 
Status
Not open for further replies.




Top