Why aren't there any brownface reissues? (Is it because of Hip Hop? ;-))) )

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Telephonist, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. jondanger

    jondanger Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    5,472
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Location:
    Charm City, MD
    Agreeing to disagree is a pretty good example of subjectivity.
     
    EllroyJames likes this.
  2. Marquee Moon

    Marquee Moon Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    560
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I am aware this matter is subjective, because it is. I am not saying sampling with a sampler or daw is not sampling. I am not saying that sampling is stealing, assuming you get the permission to use the material. To myself and alot of people my age, using someone else's music is sampling, regardless of the medium with which you sample, because you are using someone else's work. If you want to have your own narrow standards for what constitutes a sample of someone else's work, based on hip hop culture, more power to you. That is not going to change how I feel about the matter. For what it is worth, I am on a few hip hop crate diggers groups, in which almost everyone is a hip hop producer. The music used to make old school hip hop would get referred to as "samples," even though digital samplers were not used at that point, because the principle of using prerecorded music in a new composition would be the same. If someone was to say in response to someone asking what sample was used on this song, "oh no man, there is no sample used because samplers weren't commercially availible to most people at this time," people in the group would think that was unusual considering we know they used portions of another groups musical recordings to make this record. https://www.whosampled.com/Grandmas...-of-Grandmaster-Flash-on-the-Wheels-of-Steel/
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  3. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    969
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Location:
    Texas
    No one seemed to mind when Queen and David Bowie sampled the bass line from Vanilla Ice's "Ice Ice Baby".
     
    AlbertaGriff likes this.
  4. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    6,594
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Location:
    Beaumont, CA
    Beautiful amp, I want to try some of these larger brown amps so bad... I'm really jonesing to try a Concert. The whole 4x10 thing is always exciting to me.

    I love my Vibroverb, but it is only a Reissue. I can't remember actually ever hearing a real, vintage brown/blond amp in person. Isn't that sad?

    (and you did miss the fourth topic within this thread, global warming)
     
    teletimetx and Tomm Williams like this.
  5. Tomm Williams

    Tomm Williams Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,186
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    Brownface concerts seem to be the least expensive model generally, perhaps due to weight?. I found mine for $1,800 but it had a non original transformer ( no biggie to me). They really are wonderful sounding amps.

    I’ll edit my post to include Global Warming :lol::lol::lol:
     
    Axis29 likes this.
  6. swampyankee

    swampyankee Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    768
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Location:
    Southern New England
    Maybe Global Warming is the real reason Fender doesn't reissue any more brownface amps - they're guarding the world from being exposed to too much of that "warm" brownface sound...
     
    BigDaddyLH likes this.
  7. Fiesta Red

    Fiesta Red Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,114
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    :lol::lol:Interesting choice of words, considering those attenuators had the tendency to get a little too warm.
     
  8. Tomm Williams

    Tomm Williams Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,186
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    I think you may be on to something here...... in my efforts to save the world, you can safely dispose of those planet-wrecking amps at my house. AOC and Bernie will thank you!!:p
     
  9. dannyh

    dannyh Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    53
    Posts:
    1,509
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Location:
    North Texas
    This thread has it all...but needs more pics.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Axis29 and teletimetx like this.
  10. teletimetx

    teletimetx Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    11,072
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    Oh, yeah! the 3 X 10 Bandmaster! i would love to hear one of those. I've only seen pictures...
     
  11. KennyL

    KennyL TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    5
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Location:
    St Johns FL
    The problem I have encountered, is that for some Brownface models, there are few chassis out there. If someone IS building a Tremolux, Vibrolux or Vibroverb, they probably had to buy a hundred chassis to make it worth the chassis builder's time and effort. And there just doesn't seem to be enough demand for any one builder to make that kind of investment. Trust me. I am very frustrated over it ...
     
  12. KennyL

    KennyL TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    5
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Location:
    St Johns FL
    I began my guitar life playing my older brother's new 1960 Jazzmaster through his brand new 1960 PRO amp. I stole that rig whenever I could and eventually bought my own amp, a brand new 1964 Super Reverb, which I still have ... along with a 1966 Super Reverb and a 1967 Showman ... all good amps. But my "head hearing" keeps going back to that 1960 PRO. In my neck of the woods (northeast Florida), there have been few tweeds and few brownfaces floating around the neighborhoods; so the opportunity to buy has been non-existent until the Interwebs emerged. But raising a family prevented purchasing a Brownface model, of which there were many built.

    I think perhaps Fender was doing then, what they are doing now: mistakenly making "new and exciting," regardless of how great an older model sounded. But then, we are the beneficiaries (dough, not withstanding), as we get to choose from a bunch of different vintage models and a bunch of different sounds. Don't know if I will ever nail a Brownface or not, but I love their warmth, thickness and sweet midrange quite a bit, so I sure hope I do, before I leave this planet ... Glad there are others out there who appreciate them as I do.
     
    ocduff and Axis29 like this.
  13. ocduff

    ocduff Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    156
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Location:
    USA
    I have brownfaces, Blackfaces and late tweeds. I can get them all to sound pretty much exactly alike.

    Too much is made of the cosmetic era - from the ‘57 5F6 Bassman to the 1968 Twin Reverb, we are kind of talking about similar amps. That is, the similarities are far greater than the differences.

    Now there are exceptions to what I’m about to say but I don’t think the brownfaces have the magic “sparkle” and “chime” of late tweeds or later Blackface amps.

    Set the controls flat on a tweed Bassman or a Blackface Deluxe on the normal channel, and you have a very usable channel and PLENTY of room to dial in some high end.

    Set controls flat on a Brown 6G series amp and it’s dark. No sparkle. Then add in the funky mid and treble tap control and it’s hard to dial in a sound that doesn’t have too much mids and not enough treble.

    The brightened the Vibroverb reissue considerably - a 350pf treble cap over a 250pf.

    That said I love a Brownface. I love the looks. I love how they are a bit different. BUT - were I a famous musician, I don’t think my Brownface amp would be the one that would cut it in the studio or live - I’d bet that Blackface that sounds a bit piercing in the rehearsal room would sit just right in a mix.

    As for reverb, there’s pedals now that sound really good and are very tweakable - the need for a complicated, tone sucking, ONE KNOB reverb with a set tone and settings, is becoming passe whether we like it or not. Have you HEARD a Stymon Flint? A Topanga Reverb?

    Really, Fender is reissuing the Brown Princeton which is, circuit wise, a tweed Vibrolux 5F11.

    Too much is said about the Brown Deluxe online - it’s raw, it’s gainy, it’s a perfect small amp circuit on paper, but doesn’t sound as chimey or goeey or responsive as a 5E3.

    I think the 6G4-A Super is the best Brownface. The harmonic vibrato gets lots of press but really, it’s just okay - and like I said, there’s pedals that can do it just as well and not drag the gain down in the vibrato channel down, as it does on all those amps on into the Blackface era with the roach style tremolo.

    The argument for a 5F6-A head with switchable negative feedback, a cathode/fix bias switch, multi-tap OT, and able to run American or British 8 pin tubes, all into a mix of speaker cabs with all kinds of your favorite speakers would really end all discussions about amps - that’s all anyone would ever need. That circuit just makes sense. You can dial in any tone and more highs and lows than you can ever need and you can dial them out too.
     
  14. PooTwang

    PooTwang Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    231
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Location:
    Dirty Jersey
    A2D0E766-B18D-48BA-9E99-46C3DF5AF90C.jpeg 508301BC-DE15-41E0-A40F-3585CA4A8C4D.jpeg My one two favs
     
    ruger9 likes this.
  15. JIMMY JAZZMAN

    JIMMY JAZZMAN Tele-Meister

    Age:
    68
    Posts:
    198
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Location:
    Baltimore
    The old "brownies" were a lot like the old "mesas" but with a tad less treble think James Brown.
     
  16. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    63
    Posts:
    12,040
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    The Far-Flung Isles of Langerhans
    Kinda depends where you set the Presence, doesn't it?
     
  17. ocduff

    ocduff Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    156
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Location:
    USA
    As noted, with controls set “flat” at 5, the Presence isn’t adding any sparkle. At 8.5 out of 10 you can get some “bite”, but it’s not “sparkle”. That doesn’t leave much room, if any, to add more if - for example - you aren’t playing a Tele or have a dark overdrive or delay pedal.

    On a ‘59 tweed Bassman you can set the controls flat and get sparkle, and have pleennnnty of room to add more.

    It’s all subjective. I’m attempting to explain the lack of popularity of Brownfaces as back line amps or recording amps.

    They lack the sparkle inherent in Blackfaces and yes, larger tweeds. A 5E5/7/8 sparkles - the 5F6/8 sparkle too.

    Still plenty of great recordings made with them. The list is huge. But if one is looking for sparkle - minus a JBL producing it - it’s not what the brownfaces do.

    Very mid forward with an attenuated high end. Plenty of lows too. Just not as many highs. With the tapped treble control, you can’t add treble without adding even MORE mids.

    Still, love my ‘61 Super, but it is what it is.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.