Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Cheap guitar guy, May 30, 2019.
You just don't know because a guy on the internet said so. Get your eyes and ears checked.
I'm pretty sure we're hearing digital amp modeling in a lot more recordings and concerts than we think we are...
The same way forum members obsess over handwound pickups, alnico magnets, NOS tubes, etc., I think the opposite is probably happening with the actual famous professionals who tour, record albums, etc. They obsess over producing great sounding music. Today we have specialized "guitar speakers" meant to replicate the classic sounds of the past; but in the past they did not have "guitar speakers", etc., they had speakers. The coveted Celestion Blue speakers in old Vox amps were previously used as radio speakers.
I think on professional recordings were are for sure hearing fakery more often than not. It's strange. A pro studio has the ability and the amenities to track anything at any time as loud as it needs to be, yet they still wimp out. Most musicians don't care how a sound gets recorded. In my experience, dealing with musicians in my studio, guitarists in particular are very picky about their guitars, but amps and cabs are often just whatever. An afterthought. Some of them don't even bring an amp. Enter the era of lame ass micro amps, modelers, software, and drum samples. In the studio you can "record" the musical tracks whole album without so much as waking up a baby in the control room with you. It's awful to me, but it happens.
In the recording world, Protools amp sims have been the norm for decades. Sure the "legacy" (i.e., "old") bands still use tube gear in the studio, but young bands grew up playing guitar into their laptops anyway so they're totally cool with the idea. It is a neat trick to be able to listen to a playback and say "that guitar tone isn't cutting it, let's turn that Super Lead into an OR120" and do it with the click of a mouse. The only hurdle to overcome was making it reliable enough for the road, and it seems Kemper has accomplished this feat.
Personally I'm waiting for the $200 Joyo version, and if I recall, the first step in that direction came out just recently.
I use the little Vox Pathfinder for everything at home, from practice to casual jams to recording. It sounds very good in the recordings, I couldn't tell if it's a tube amp, solid state amp or whatever amp - it just sounds good. I have a big and heavy Fender tube amp - it never gets played at home. Sounds good onstage, but it's too damn loud, and you have to pretty much go deaf to achieve "that sound". The little Pathfinder wouldn't cut it onstage without mic'ing, or without a very soft, conscious, concise, musical drummer (these have gone extinct now). So anyway, to me there's no difference as long as it sounds good for what you want. I'm not one of those youtube vintage cork sniffers who have thousands of dollars to keep their expensive hobby, so..
This question has been asked many times, in many ways. Don't be discouraged by what others think or say; get educated on the subject, then form your own opinions, because in the end, that's the only thing that really matters.
That said, while I have owned several tube amps over the years, I'm now quite happy to now own only solid state amps.
Personally, I have found that solid state amps sound great, weigh less and are much less expensive to own.
To call them “fake” is just silly. It’s another way to produce sound. I hate to break it to you, but toob ampz are also involved in the physical being converted to electrical and back again.
Pete Anderson and his pointy C tuned guitars have been using the Pod for decades. Apparently to produce what, metal or worship music?
Believe what you want. Use what you want. But maybe don’t erect straw men and ignore reality to disparage equally valid choices.
The way some people present themselves, one would be led to wonder if maybe they have just a little bit too much of their own self worth tied up in their gear choices.
Tube amps aren't pretending to be something else. They just are what they are. SS and modeling devices are trying to copy them, not vice versa. Look at how much cost, time, and effort goes into trying to recreate the "tube amp sound"....you could just use a tube amp. Boom. Done. 100 year old technology that has still yet to be improved upon for audio purposes.
No one's ignored anything. Take your own advice - use what you want. No one's stopping you from rocking 1s and 0s.
Couldn't the same be said for the modeler crowd? How much name dropping gets done to justify and defend one's personal belief that modelers are "just as good"?
Actual, digital devices only start with the amp itself. They also include the rest of the signal chain, including effects and microphones. If you personally have no use for this stuff that's fine, but please consider that what is best for your needs may not be ideal for the next guy.
"Reading is fundamental" as they used to say.
As noted, I use tube amps.
I'm just not into trying to present my choices as better or more authentic.
I'm not defending anything here, but I will speak out when people say stuff that is not true. I have a flipping Marshall half stack in my living room, it's not like I'm locked into any one amp or type of technology.
I don't think they believe they are "just as good". I suspect in some respects they find them "better". But the quotation marks around "just as good" are a classy touch.
Better? Maybe, maybe not. Is a Blackstar HT5 better than a Kemper? Not in my opinion. But more authentic? Sure. A tube amp is more authentic if the digital device in question is trying to copy it. Which is more authentic? An actual woman, or your hand?
What was said that is not true?
Is that not the main defense/goal of modeling technology? "It sounds just like the real thing"! I mean, I've seen that from the marketing materials to the user's own confirmation bias.
We can start with "fake amps," since that one was yours. And device that increases the amplitude of a signal is an amplifier.
It was also stated somewhere in here (a few times, actually) that digital/SS cannot match the "feel" of tube amps, and doesn't match their sound. Again, not true. I speak based on personal, hands-on experience, not compressed YouTube videos played back through laptop speakers. I have personally made profiles of my own amps and compared them with the Kemper using identical cabs-with an A/B pedal that allowed me to do it instantly.
This thread isn't about gear and technology, it's about basic human nature with a seasoning of placebo and confirmation bias.
Fair enough, poor choice of words. But I stand by the point behind the poor choice of words.
That's great, but your experience is yours alone. If you believe it, then it's true....for you. And no one can take that away from you. Is it okay if I have my doubts though? Do I have to just blindly believe you because you say so? Personal experience is just that - personal. I stated that I've never once seen anyone in the styles of music that I like use modeling amps. That's not to say it doesn't happen. That's just me saying I've never seen it. That's my personal experience - not law.
Confirmation bias is a real problem with modeler people, for sure.
I don't expect anybody to blindly believe what I say any more than I would expect them to blindly believe what you have to say. All that I would like to see is for those that have limited or no in-depth time in with the gear to be honest with themselves (and everyone else here) about the reasons behind their objections to it.
"Not as good" isn't an objective reason. "Too many lights and buttons are scary" is a bit more honest. "I've been using tube amps for 40 years, I'm happy where I'm at and don't have any desire to change" is reasonable. "I'm nostalgic" is probably the core reason for the vast majority of the objections, whether people admit it or not.