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Why are Gibson's and Fender's marketing people so dumb?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by DougM, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. Paul Jenkin

    Paul Jenkin Friend of Leo's

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    Yes, I know them well :rolleyes:

    Their new showroom is enormous and the guys there are very helpful. I've known Alan and John for years and it's good to see a retailer providing that level of choice in an out-of-town location where parking is provided and you have the time to browse and try whatever you like before buying or just going away to contemplate. They have even had John Cruz from Fender custom shop doing a demo there and answering questions from those who have or might, one day, buy one of their guitars.
     
  2. Lefty Addams

    Lefty Addams Tele-Afflicted

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    Yes thats right. Good service for many years.
     
  3. Crashbelt

    Crashbelt Tele-Holic

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    20170917_113406.jpg
    I rather like CAR with mint green on my 65:cool:
     
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  4. Fiesta Red

    Fiesta Red Poster Extraordinaire

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    Similarly, the Mustangs and Jaguars and Jazzmasters were not popular until Kurt Cobain started playing them for the same reason you mentioned--they were cheap (used)...
     
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  5. Minimalist518

    Minimalist518 Tele-Afflicted

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    It strikes me that if pickguard color is your chief complaint and best example of bad Fender marketing ideas, that you’re really stretching in an attempt at parity in complaint between the two companies.
    A pickguard has nothing to do with playability and ergonomics and is one of, if not the easiest thing to replace on a guitar and many people do it anyway even if the stock guard looks pretty good. If that’s the worst offense you can find, Fender comes off sounding pretty good!
    On the other hand, it seems the faults you list for Gibson are more legitimately potential faults.
    Not a criticism, but an observation. [emoji6]
     
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  6. GearHund

    GearHund Tele-Holic Gold Supporter

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    Drugs?
     
  7. ArchiMark

    ArchiMark TDPRI Member

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    Would the new company be called Gender or Fibson?
     
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  8. claes

    claes Tele-Afflicted

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    Im more intrested if Fender and Gibson will survive china. They manage to reel in Japanese guitar makers into the western cult. But this time they are a lot more people, over a billion, and a lot more of guitar companies.
    This time the consumers also come better prepared with the internet. We can tell eachother that Donlis makes just as good pickups for tenth of the price. In house brand is taking market shares etc etc
     
  9. Lobomov

    Lobomov Friend of Leo's

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    It's Fender and Gibson that actually put down the cash needed to produce and marked their guitars. They have something on the line where as random bystanders on the internet have risked nothing.

    I'm putting my money on Fender and Gibson being better at guitar business than most of us.
     
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  10. Frontman

    Frontman Tele-Holic

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    People, in general, are dumb. Sounds harsh, but most people's perspective is limited to their knowledge and experience. And just because one has a degree from a good school doesn't make them less dumb. On the contrary, since they have devoted more of their time and attention to a particular subject, they are often even less knowledgeable of things "outside their bailiwick."

    Gibson and Fender have hired marketing people and executives expecting these people to be able to increase sales. Your typical MBA or marketing specialists will know a lot about numbers, but, unfortunately, they likely know little about the manufacture of musical instruments, and the instrument market.

    The markets for other products are nothing at all like the musical instrument market. In the automotive and electronics market (and most others), products are expected to evolve over time. New technologies are integrated to make cars and electronics faster, more efficient, and appealing. Added to this is the fact that cars, electronics, and other machines become obsolete within a few years (intentionally), and new ones are purchased to take their place.

    Fender and Gibson seem to be applying (or misapplying) common marketing and business strategies from the main market to their businesses. The results to anyone who is not dumb are entirely predictable.

    Unfortunately, in an era when bad help is hard to find, and good help nearly impossible to find, companies in trouble can have a hard time digging out. There are few "Lee Iaccoca" style executives who have the knowledge and experience to take the reins and turn the company in the right direction. Instead, we have marketing people who wouldn't be able to earn enough to feed themselves if they were paid on commission, and executives who couldn't manage a McDonald's restaurant without driving it out of business.

    Too many American companies are dying from self-inflicted wounds. Look what happened to Kodak. Kodak invented the digital camera, and every such camera used today owes it's technology to Kodak. What would have been a gold mine to a Japanese or Chinese company, insuring relevance and profits for decades to come, was squandered away by poor leadership and bad decisions.

    I often wonder if the destruction of America's businesses is intentional, as destroying brands like Kodak, Gibson, Fender, and others would seem extremely difficult to do, unless one really tried. I can imagine an Asian consortium already making plans to buy the rights to Fender and Gibson, knowing they could earn strong profits from these brands, when the current American management can only generate strong losses.
     
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  11. mooninmyboot

    mooninmyboot TDPRI Member

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    Sorry but have to disagree with that comment. The Olive Green Jag with maple neck and black pick guard is one of the cooler Fenders released in 2017 IMHO.
     
  12. abrianb

    abrianb Tele-Meister

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    ArchiMark the company should be called L&O, the brands would remain the same.
     
  13. TimTam

    TimTam Tele-Holic

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    Agree. Just about to put mint green on a CAR jaguar. My decision was strengthened by this ....

     
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  14. william tele

    william tele Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Cool! I'd steampunk that turd!:D
     
  15. Crashbelt

    Crashbelt Tele-Holic

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    I'm not usually a Jag fan but that us seriously cool in CAR with the green guard:D
     
  16. Pappy Yokum

    Pappy Yokum Tele-Meister

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    Harley-Davidson has the same problem.

    It would be easy to stereotype / make a "Muppet" (puppet) of a "typical" Harley-Davidson owner:
    Fat old man, with bad hair and tattoos.

    Younger buyers coming into the motorcycle market are not flocking to H-D showrooms. They gravitate toward the Asian "crotch-rockets". And, now ... maybe (?) the latest -- retro-bikes in the vein of smaller, simpler, carbureted Brit bikes, sans fairings. Also; in-the-mix, is the ultra-fun / practical "enduro" type bikes like BMW single-cylinder and KTM "Paris-to-Dakar" bikes.
    But, NOT Harley-Davidson bikes.

    Think about it ....


    ~ Pappy ~
    deplorable pick'r :cool:
     
  17. Pappy Yokum

    Pappy Yokum Tele-Meister

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    You might want to add something else to that Harley-Davidson "stereotypical owner" : goatees. More-and-more of the younger dudes are opting for full-facial hair. Goatees / Van-Dykes are out-of-style. About time. THAT trend gained traction in 1993 ... following the popularity of the movie, "3-Musketeers".


    ~ Pappy ~
    deplorable :cool: pick'r
     
  18. maxvintage

    maxvintage Poster Extraordinaire

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    Is the problem kids today? Lacking (pick at least one) common sense/personal responsibility/work ethic/politeness/patriotism/musical taste/gumption/imagination?

    Because it seems like that's the usual complaint around here, unless they show those things, in which case the problem is kids today with too much....
     
  19. Smiff

    Smiff Tele-Holic

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    This year’s new offerings at NAMM show what the marketing men have to deal with. The majority of youngsters praised the new 9.5” radius on the AOS and the majority of old farts hated the removal of 7.25” radius from the American line up.

    The new Parallel Universe Series pushed the boat out with some new ideas while maintaining distinctive Fender parts. This was the same; many people saw a model or two they liked and others slammed them for being conservative.

    They brought out the new Meteora, which actually was completely new and that was the same; some liked it and some said they should have designed a whole new bridge and pickups for it.

    They can’t please everyone but they need to try and please the majority to turn a profit and I reckon they’ve succeeded this year. Out of all the new models there’s probably at least one that everyone likes.

    As for the original question about pickguard colour; it’s pretty clever I think. They put a less favoured colour on and you buy a nicer colour from Fender because you know the cut out for the neck and bridge and the screw holes will be an EXACT fit without having to take your chances with another manufacturer.
     
  20. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

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    Innovation would be great if they created something new that is actually desirable in some way, instead of just finding different ways of combining the same old parts.
     
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