Doctor of Teleocity
- Feb 21, 2008
- Left of the Left Coast
Cool stuff. My brother warned me not to get sucked into the math stuff (didn't need to, tho, I suck at math). I'm going to taunt him by sending this this to himNerd alert View attachment 1089320
Music scale math fun:
This is an irrational number.
It's the ratio between note frequencies in an equal tempered 12 tone scale. (And also between string lengths of adjacent frets). Note that when you multiply this number by itself 12 times you get 2, which is the octave. Good for laying out a fretboard.
History of Irrational Numbers | Brilliant Math & Science WikiIrrational numbers are numbers that have a decimal expansion that neither shows periodicity (some sort of patterned recurrence) nor terminates. Let's look at their history. Hippassus of Metapontum, a Greek philosopher of the Pythagorean school of thought, is widely regarded as the first person...brilliant.org
The interval of the perfect 5th is the closest we have to a rational number.
The ratio of the open string to the length at the 7th fret (to the bridge) is 1.49830707687668... which is really close to 3/2. I think that's the reason you find something like it in most music scale systems around the world. Other notes can be all over the map.
When the frequency ratio is a rational number, the waves line up and there are no beat notes, so it sounds "in tune".
In equal temperament, transposing to any key sounds equally out of tune because the ratios stay the same.
OK I'll stop now.
You'd think.If they've got cattle, they're not hunter-gatherers.
You'd thinkIf they've got cattle, they're not hunter-gatherers.
Thanks for clarifying that. I guess pre- is not a universally know pre-fix (get it? "pre" fix, lol) for before. I'll stick with it, tho, since the first Sumarian civilationa were founded before first kingdom Egypt, and before Abraham (Abraham was born in Ur, a Sumarian city, and one of those Cities was said to be founded by Enoch, whose book was passed on when they later (ie, not before/"pre") made the Bible (the OG bible). As for sources, I hear Penn is a decent school, but what do I know. Clearly need to read more.There are many civilizations that were pre Egyptian or pre "biblical" ( I have no idea what that even means?). My advice: read more, from acredited sources.
You gotta post them when you get home. Thats a pretty big tease otherwiseI have a musical instrument attributed to the Red Paint People who lived in this part of Maine some 10,000 years ago. (Then disappeared)
OK it is an axe head, technically not a musical instrument.
Sorry no pics it is at home and I am not.
Oh man, gutsy comment.I don't know who invented the first guitar strings, but he sure had a lot of guts.
It's a good point. I put "invented" in quotes cuz we always get the old stuff wrong.It would be interesting to look into the (African) history of the berimbau, which is very popular in Brazil. Its basically just a bow (as in bow and arrow) with a gourd attached for resonance, clearly an ancestor of the Kora and similar harps popular in Africa.
Not much to look at and not the more common flint cutting tool.You gotta post them when you get home. Thats a pretty big tease otherwise
Lucky you. That's incredible.Not much to look at and not the more common flint cutting tool.
Supposedly checked by an expert and considered genuine, possibly circa 10,000 years old.
Found by an old farmer years ago not far from where I grew up.
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It's great stuff, I listened to this this afternoon.I was quoting Mesopotamia from the B-52’s.
But if you want to hear a modern band that is highly influenced by music from that region check out Khruangbin. Mark Speer’s guitar playing is there.
If we critically compare text-book history to text-book human ‘evolution’, then absolute eons are omitted… let’s not be fooled, our ‘real history’ has been erased ‘multiple?’ times. How could it not… compare the timelines and please prove me wrong?!?
Nana!Actually goes back to hunting bows, and amplifiers when they added a gourd to the bow.
Yeah man, that's a good way to put it. I truly believe the whole paradigm of history is a hack or just incorrect. And with few exceptions, most of what we've been told of the really ancient events/time line has been later shown to be way older. I thinks old as the universe is more likely for a lot of it than the dates we've stamped.
Danke. I got an error that it's verboten in meinem Land. But I'd like to see it. This is very cool stuff. Any idea if it can be seen anywhere else?For those who understand German, there is a documentary about strings to be viewed on ARTE this evening, but one can stream it for now at https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/107201-000-A/das-dunkle-geheimnis-des-herrn-paganini/
The dark secret of Mr. Paganini. Documentation • F, A 2022 • 50 minutes
Legendary facts about the history of strings
We shudder when a Stradivarius or Guarneri violin fetches a top price at auction. If we turn the wheel of time back 400 years, we will be surprised. "The violin was built around the strings" is a traditional sentence from that time. In the string lay the perfectly natural, the "divine sound". The strings were made according to top secret recipes. The string producers in the mountain villages of Abruzzo worked on behalf of Rome and the Vatican. In other countries one tried in vain to reach the quality of the Italian strings. These therefore became an important commodity that brought enormous income to Rome and the Vatican. From the Thirty Years' War onwards, Rome repeatedly imposed string embargoes on the reformed countries. As late as the 19th century, Paganini traveled through Europe with a hidden box. It contained the special strings for sale to many an eagerly awaiting musician. The documentary follows the Italian chemist Mimmo Peruffo to the old mountain village of Salle, where he received information from the last string makers about the string secret in the 1990s. The chemist began with the replica with the cellist Claudio Ronco. It took them three decades to produce strings whose sound characteristics were largely based on the "corde divine". Today the demand is increasing. Musicians are increasingly looking for that special, old sound. What makes this sound is one of the surprises of this documentary, rich in the unexpected, in which Paganini's spirit also finds its place.
It's just insane to imagine 40,000 yo flute. Just imagine 40,000 is hard for me. I have to constantly reorient myself with current time or I can't grasp it. I read thinks like "the civilizations sudden collapse" or something like that and then I look closely and "sudden" was a 1000 year period. 1023 AD was 1000 years ago from today. That's a really long time. I read Cleopatra is closer to us in time than she was to the building of the pyramids.This thread got me wondering: What is the oldest known instrument? As I typed that question into Google, a thought came immediately to mind. The answer to the first question could only be based on what is known, what has actually been found, so any answer to the question needs to consider that. As it turns out, there is a flute made of a bear femur, made by a Neanderthal person that is at least 40,000 years old. It was found in a cave somewhere in Europe. Aside from that, I Googled "oldest known stringed instrument", and it's a toss up between a lyre and a "plucked chordophone", both of which date to about 4500 years ago. It is stated (according to what I found on the Internet at: https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-string-family-instruments-history-facts.html ) that the first bowed chordophones where probably developed in Asia (a year is not attributed to that). I'm sure that amongst anthropologists, this is a controversial question and I have no doubt (as has been a central problem with the entire field of anthropology) that accusations of ethnocentrism have been levelled at certain claims. Still, a 40,000 year old flute is pretty cool! No?