1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

Which wiring is correct?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Digiplay, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. Digiplay

    Digiplay Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,330
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Location:
    Hoover, Alabama
    Now I'm REALLY confused! :)



    On my previous Thread I was asking why my middle pickup was so weak/thin in volume, so I decided to see how some of my other Telecaster were wired.


    Photo 1 is a 2009 AVRI '52, Photo 2 is a 2008 AVRI '52, and Photo 3 is a 2016 RW '50s.


    I'm trying to get the 2009 AVRI '52 back to the way it would have come from the factory, but as it has a Sprauge cap, as well as various solders on the control plate, I'm sure the previous owner changed the wiring, and whereas the 2008 AVRI '52 works correctly, it has obviously been worked on by its previous owner.


    So.................................................................................................................................


    The 2009 looks wired basically the same as the 2008, but as noted:
    1) It does not have the original tone cap.
    2) The neck pu ground and the bridge pu ground are soldered at two different locations on the volume pot, whereas the 2008 has both grounds soldered at the same location.


    The 2008 looks like it had something soldered to the tone pot, what was there is unknown.


    The RW, which has not been modified, shows:
    1) The output jack ground soldered to the tone pot.
    2) Both the neck and bridge pu's soldered at the same location on the volume pot, just like the 2008.
    3) It has a different tone cap than the 2009 does.
    4) All other pu wires are soldered the same as the other two.


    So which one should I emulate?


    AVRI '09 switch wiring.jpg AVRI '08 switch wiring.jpg RW switch wiring..jpg
     
  2. Digiplay

    Digiplay Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,330
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Location:
    Hoover, Alabama
    Bump.

    I called Fender, and they said the specs for the 2008 cap were 200V and .1uf, and the part # was 002 1022 049, but when I researched it, that cap looks nothing like the cap on my 2008.


    FWIW, the cap on the 2008 AVRI '52 is a IC 503Z, and on the RW, the cap is a 100V 503.


    So much conflicting data, so does anyone know where I can buy a cap like what's on the 2008?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  3. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,195
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2015
    Location:
    Australia
    The wiring on all three is the same.
    The 2nd pic has had the output ground shifted from the tone pot to the vol pot. The 3rd pic has output ground to tone.
    No biggie ... I prefer having all grounds to the same pot. In the 3rd pic, you're relying on continuous good connection between pots and plate.

    1st pic has a PIO cap. Reading back on old threads will assure you that PIO caps (being far more expensive) have far better tonal qualities than other inferior (cheaper) caps. I always fit PIO caps (because I have a stock of them).
    As far as how it's fitted, I would always leave some leg on my caps (plenty of room inside cavity: no need to have it flush with the plate).

    Which to emulate: as far as soldering quality, emulate the 3rd pic ... but connect output ground to the vol pot .... and for far better tone fit a PIO.;) And use a wire link for the switch, not insulated wire links as used in pic's 2 & 3 (insulation is unnecessary here and looks ****ty).
    As far as wiring, I prefer the cloth covered wire (if you have it) ... looks better IMO and is easier to use (no insulation stripping required).

    Also try to keep soldering quality better than pic's 2 & 3.
     
  4. Digiplay

    Digiplay Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,330
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Location:
    Hoover, Alabama
    So what do I do about that?
     
  5. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,195
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2015
    Location:
    Australia
    Pre-tinning everything may help, esp' the pot casing. Lots of heat when tinning the pot casings, but limit the time.
    If you use cloth covered wire, it's pre-tinned.

    Clean then pre-tin soldering iron tip, add heat to the largest part then feed solder.
    Any join that looks 'rounded' means you have fed in too much solder.
    Any join that's not shiny or 'grows tails' means 'too much time'.
    3 seconds max per join. (1 - heat, 2 - feed solder, 3 - remove tip).
    Remove excess flux, esp from pot case ... it looks bad and is corrosive. (I use a PCB cleaner spray and toothbrush)

    Besides that ... practice.
     
  6. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,039
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Location:
    Merseyside UK

    Attached Files:

  7. Digiplay

    Digiplay Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,330
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Location:
    Hoover, Alabama
    Remember that I'm only talking about the first photo (the 2009 AVRI).

    Are you saying to remove all existing solder and connections, and to start over fresh?

    Hopefully not, as that seems kind of extreme, but if I have to, so be it.


    I'm still puzzled that no one knows where I can purchase the original type tone cap that it originally came with :)

    Thanks,
    Jerry
     
  8. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,195
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2015
    Location:
    Australia
    Wrt just the first pic: all in all the soldering is OK. If you want to redo the pot casing grounds for aesthetic's, .............
    If are replacing the cap, redoing the pot connections would be worthwhile while you're at it.
    With the cap, 104 or 503 may have been used originally. If Fender used 100nF originally, many would have been swapped out for 47nF (IMO). Standard value today for 503 would be 473 (47nF). Caps used were ceramic disk, which are very common: you can definitely find 50nF (503) ceramics from any supplier.
    My tone pot preference leans towards 33nF (which is even smaller). Some even prefer 22nF. This comes down to personal tonal preferences. I find 47nF (and more so 100nF) can sound overly muddy.
    I wouldn't think a cap replacement would have any impact on the value of a 2008 Tele.
     
  9. Digiplay

    Digiplay Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,330
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Location:
    Hoover, Alabama
    It appears from my research (uh-oh :) ) that:

    1) The original cap, for the Vintage wiring between the volume and tone pot, was a 503z .047uf 200V cap (and btw, that's the cap on my 2008 AVRI '52, which ironically is wired modern style).

    2) When switching the AVRI '52 to modern wiring, the cap was supposed to be changed to a .022uf 250V cap.

    3) The Sprague Vitamin Q is a .047uf 200V cap.


    As I prefer a brighter tone, where's a good place to buy the .022uf 250V cap?
     
  10. PCollen

    PCollen Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,317
    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Location:
    Man of the World

    Your MIDDLE pickup is thin/weak ? Do you mean the middle pickup selector switch position ?
     
  11. Digiplay

    Digiplay Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,330
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Location:
    Hoover, Alabama
    Hi PC, how's my buddy been?

    Yes, when I put the switch in the middle position, the tone is thin, and the volume is a lot lower.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.